Dragon Motor Cars talkin' smack about Run & Gun 2003

[MysteryTrain]

Did I read that correctly? RRD: your 1800lb Grifith is getting a 600 hp 427?! Holy s***. Hey, Dragon cars! Pick on someone your own size - like the RRD's Grifith.

To credit the Grifith, it may be a bit funky, but I wouldn't call it Dragon-ugly.

What we're seeing here is the evolution of small car/big engine formula that will one day mimic the scene in Episode one, where Lucas dreamed up races between machines that were composed of nothing but engines and a steering device.

A couple weeks ago, I was at a gas station and I heard this thunderous rumble - my immediate thought was "Cobra!" I swiveled my head around, and couldn't locate the sound. The only car around was this red Focus at the pump across from me. I had to rub my eyes in disbelief as the Focus pulled away acompanied by the manly thumping of a V8. As the guy went past me, I caught a glimpse of the custom dual exhaust and little 5.0 badge. I thought to myself, "Civics, beware!" How the hell he plans to combat the unholy torque steer, I have no idea, but I applaud the classic cubic inches solution.

Again, for comparison's sake, anyone have data or links about the cost of these Dragon cars?

thanks, Mtrain

[RRD]

Heightwise, the Griffith is a bit less than 45". Yes, you did read correctly, 1800 lbs, 600 hp. I've moved the rear wheel well(s) inboard to pick up enough width for a 12" wide wheel and 12-13" wide rear tire. Front tire tread width will remain at about 8", as all I'm doing there is removing inner fenderwells that cause some interference. I don't want to change the lines of the car by flaring all the wheel openings. The overall tread width of about 60" is enough for an 85 1/2" wheelbase. To see current TVRs, go to www.tvr-eng.co.uk/ they make some great automobiles. BTW, they're no slouch in the power department. They developed an engine called the "Speed 12" that allegedly broke their flywheel dyno somewhere north of 900 hp. For trivia guys, Jack Griffith's test driver was Mark Donohue. The first Griffith I owned, a series 200, was supposed to have been one of the factory race cars. It had an electronic control unit under dash for Tacelmit Jackson fuel injection, which supposedly Mark used during a few races at Lime Rock. The largest engineering downfall of the original cars was the fiberglass bonding of the body to the tube chassis. Yes, condensation; and then broken frame members. Most guys starting with a new frame now, will "sandwich" the body to the frame in 5 or 6 locations. Well, at any rate, it'll be interesting to see if Racefab in the piney woods of east TX can basically graft a current Trans Am suspension, brakes and quickchange IRS to this little guy. Going fast is great, stopping is even better.
Roger

[Fred Douglass]

...about "Dragonsnakes" (not knowing that 15 or so cobras had been manufactured and marketed by that model name). I mentioned seeing a "Dragon(snake)" in a northern Massachusetts shopping mall. Of course, I got a heat-round for displaying my ignorance! NOW who's laughing, (unnamed) smart-ass?

I think you guys may be wrong about the hideous looks-that's a stealth Thule car-topper storage bin--not a hood bulge!!!


Bill Emerson-WHATTACAH! What are the wheels and tires you're running? I'd like to know that fer sher!!!

I also would like to add, that our cobras are indeed "vintage" sports cars---updates and modernizinf modifications DO make them more competitive, but purpose build new cars are going to bury us....we may be #2 in some speed tests, but we look a crap-load better, in my humble opinion....rarity bestows value!

[Edley Rondinone]

So, what's a Griffith worth these days? Comparable to a Cobra? How many were made ?

[cobrashoch]

I'm with Hal on this one. A purpose built car for a "fun" car event could ruin the event if they allow such a thing to go on. I've seen this story before at small dragstrips. A local yoko will set a car up, (usially a chevy camero or duce) such that it will be almost unbeatable at small tracks. After a while no one shows up to race these guys. Then the attendance drops off,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, well you know the rest. Not good.
Best to not allow such a thing in the first place. Not good, even for the pro classes. They may be the best of nice guys. This will not change things. Are any pro drivers in this package too?
cobrashock

[Excaliber]

Ron,,,,,,,that sounds a lot like the F1 racing series today! You think a "red" car will win? DUH!!!

Ernie

[cobrashoch]

Ernie - Those guys going after the red cars are going after/at each other.
These folks are going after a "fun" event.
There is a difference here.
cobrashock

[Back in Black]

I usually don't like coupes, but it's British good looks got me

[Excaliber]

Ron,,,,,good point! FI = BIG money at stake, it's "war"!

Here in Hawaii there is ONE guy who ALWAYS wins the SCCA Solo II. Yup, it gets old. My next Cobra will be street only, frankly, I'm tired of chaseing him. And a lot of other people feel the same way......

Ernie

[Hal Copple]

i should have known that someone out therer would love/have a Griffith,before i commented about them. I meant it in jest. One of the great things of my life was to have been a teen and young adult back in the '60's, when powerful and very different cars were out on the road. I really did see a few Griffiths, and back in the early '80's, thought about buying a used Tuscan. I never of course saw one of Bill Thomas' Cheetahs, which by the way were ALWAYS refered to as above, never just as the Cheetah. But i bought Sports Car Graphic every month, and read about all of them. Cars back then had personality.

Now, i read about hyperexpensive cars like the Bugatti, the MB, and other 800-1000 hp "supercars", and couldn't care a wit, as they are just not handsome at all. Before anything else, a car has to have style.

Like seeing a gorgeous woman across the room, it she is not beautiful to you, it doesn't matter much if she is a great cook, makes her own clothes, and sings in the choir. First, she has to knock your socks off. I will admit that i have heard the expression "there is no such thing as an ugly rich girl", but style is everyting when it comes to motorcars.

Passion must come first. Rationality later. Many years ago, i came to the conclusion that i would never buy any car unless i just had to have it. I look back at the Triumphs (3), the 'B, the Charger R/T, the Mitsu Turbo, the Jeeps, the Jag, the Porsche, and of course my beloved Great STroker.

I have now added the V8 Turbo Lotus Esprit to my someday must have list. And if i came across a Grffith, i would love to have it too.

all the best,

[HIQ]

"style is everyting when it comes to motorcars"

Hal, I could not agree with you more. I am drown to the Cobra for a variety of reasons; Performance, History, and Style. Of these, sytle is the item you can not define. It is the thing you either feel or you don't. Many supercars today have the performance and history of their manufacturer, but not many have much style to me. My dad has a Z06 Vette. It is a great fast car, but it has no style to me.

[cobrashoch]

Ernie - Several years ago I lived in San Diego for a bit. I owned a small 4wd pickup truck. A bunch of my redneck buddies and I would meet the 3rd saturday of the month and race, jump, climb and generaly get drunk, and raise hell and have fun together in the desert. I moved, but what I come to find out was it got bigger than my 20 or so buddies. Much bigger. Then came the rules, because a few of the newbe's took it serious, then came this and that, and no one was having fun any more. It evolved into something else, and become big and cumbersome. Later the whole smear folded up. So my original buddies formed a unoffical truck club to keep from repeating the mess they got into in the 70's.
I see that something like this could come to be at the run and gun "fun" event if it's not watched closely. If there is any truth in this thread, the first stone has been casted.
Hal - A Lotus Esprit V/8 turbo is on my very short list too. Since G.M. took over, the later ones are not the frail cars they used to be. Don't know if they are still wired by the "Prince" though. ( Lucas? )
I remember the TVR's but don't remember the Griffith's with Ford engines. They look the about same to me, or was it the TVR's that I remember had the Ford engines? I'm so confused:

cobrashock

[decooney]

Hi Ron,
there is definitely truth in this thread, if you are referring to the first post by me. I started this thread because I had been getting some pretty bold emails over the last few months, and even more recently from one of the Dragon drivers - all pumped up about the upcoming event and "blowing everyone away"...

Several months back, two good friends had sold their Cobras over previous years and were looking to buy something again; maybe even another Cobra. Both of these guys are Vette/Chevy fans, so some initial inquiries were made to Dragon Motorcars about the new Dragons coming out. Some big claims were being made, and it was interesting and in good fun. Several people were copied on the email conversations between this group of friends for consideration and evaluation - by the guys, so to speak.

All the sudden, R&G was coming, and the emails and inquiries started coming in again from John Doe at Dragon, with a little bashing on the Cobras. After about five in a row, I decided to start this thread to see if anyone was going to R&G with something that would compete or beat these guys. I'm fairly certain a well prepared JBL with a good driver would do the trick.

I realize the emails we received were bold marketing tactics, but still bold to say the least. Hopefully someone at R&G with a Cobra or other car will give the Dragons a run for their money in the overall category. Good Luck to all at R&G.

[HIQ]

Ron,
When I lived in California I used to drive the Rubicon 4x4 Trail. 10 Years ago it was a tough trail that we struggled to get through. Now guys roll up in custom rigs trailered in and just cruise through (generally not helping those stuck along the way). Many others still struggle. I may be sick but the struggle is what makes the process interesting.

Relating this to Cobras: If one wants to DOMINATE in open track, drag racing, SCCA, or any other racing they should not do it in a Cobra. Purpose built equipment is always the way to go if you want to make difficult matters easy. But where is the fun in that?

Is it safe to say that part of what makes a Cobra worth owning is the struggle: Most are lowd, have no tops, no AC, and are a b$tch to drive at their limits. If it was easy, it would be no fun.

[MysteryTrain]

Duane,

Since you know someone who is in the market (or owns?) a Dragon car, maybe you can answer my question about the relative cost of this "competitior" to the Cobra. Like the rest of us Cobra guys, I'd love to hear that the Dragons got slayed at the races, but realistically, are we talking about a $30,000 FFR or BDR competitor, or a 40-50 grand car with SPF or ERA in its sights? Or more? The modern components described for these cars leads me to believe it can't have the same dollar/performance ratio. I know that Chevy engines are hard to beat for price, but this car is obviously more than just a big motor in a light car.

Thanks,

MTrain

P.S., Fred, you are right! It IS a Thule car carrier. What else is said Dragon driver going to carry his extra lesiure suits in?

[cobrashoch]

And my answer to those guys is they will be beating up on a 40 year old design that has been beaten on for those 40 years. They are not getting a virgin. Only in the Chevy crowd. We will see where those cars are a few years from now. Bet'cha Cobras will be just as popular as ever.
cobrashock

[decooney]

MT,

Friends/fomer Cobra owners were initially comparing the Dragons against the parent Lister platform its concept was created from and Cobras of course. The concensus for the first Dragons produced is they would cost around 30-35k range to complete one with very vague details on what you actually get from the company in each of the stages. The short answers and decisions came down to syling and build quality.

Very Kit-Car-ish, fast, but still not a Cobra.

[coyled]

The guys that compete and want to win at run and gun have a lot more than 30k in their cars be it cobra or otherwise. They also have years of seat time and lots of test and tune in said vehicle. If a dragon is lighter, has a well designed modern suspension, wider track, longer wheel base, is well sorted and tested, has a good driver, then the cobra's are in trouble. And the dragon better not break. Thats a lot to ask for a handful of dragons against many more cobras at run n gun. One thing that I have learned about open tracking is you never know. Some cars are faster then you that you wouldn't think would be and others are slower that you thought might be faster. scott

[Russ Dickey]

They're are lots of cars faster than my Cobra, but I wouldn't trade it for one of these Dragons PLUS a boatload of cash. They are quite possibly the ugliest car I have seen in quite some time. Like somebody said earlier, it SCREAMS "kit car", like the Bradley GT or the Coyote X from the "Hardcastle & Mcormick" TV show. Yeah, I could make one of those real fast too, but I wouldn't want to be seen driving one.


I think it's the fact that the body shows complete lack of imagination or originality....it's just a bunch of other cars chopped up and smashed together. It's got a Cooper front end, glued to Corvette doors and quarters, glued to an AMC Pacer rear end. Then, they stole the hood off of Mark Hamill's "Corvette Summer" car and glued that on. Throw on some color-keyed side mirrors from an '84 Olds that don't even fit right (red car), a gas cap off of a 427 Cobra, and your choice of any wheel from the Discount Tire Rack, and you've got yourself a "Cobra Killer". Big deal.

Goofy and ugly. Gugly.

Russ

[Excaliber]

.....well,,,,,you know if it was big boat load of cash, ha ha.

Then sell the Dragon and buy another Cobra.

Ernie