Dragon Motor Cars talkin' smack about Run & Gun 2003

[Hal Copple]

if one builds a "single purpose" car, it can usually trump other less specialized ones. Like in drag racing, or road course work, if the builder has the money, a car can be built just for that. I was at at the East Coast Timing Assoc.'s event several weeks ago, those cars are very specially constructed. An extreme example of single-purpose engineering.

So if one wants to build a car to win at the R & G, i think it would not be hard, with enough money. But I don't care much if this or that is faster than my SPF. There are many faster cars out there, some are actually really handsome cars, but these Dragons aren't in my opinion.

I only really care about cars i would like to own, Ferrari's, the SPF Coupe, Lambo's, the Noble, Lotus, etc. You may recall the earlier Consuliers, really really fast, but ugly as sin. Nobody cared about them either. The Dragon cars are similiar.

I think the R & G was originally a Cobra Relica event, (don't know for sure), but if it wants to evolve into a Kit Car event, i think the organizers will see less Cobra interest. If i were one of the organzers, i would carefully re-think the goals of the Event. You can't be all things to all enthusiasts.

I think i would insist that all replicas would have to closely resemble a "real car" from the past. Otherwise, R & G just becomes the Kit Car nationals. And we won't much care.

[RICK LAKE]

To Everybody on the Dragons I have never hear John C talk smack about any other cars. He has said he thinks he can run with any of the other cars with the same motor. Blake at the mag is the one who writes this poor storys to try and sell this mag. I have been involved in helping over racers at R&G and in 5 times he has get pictures and short story, he has not got the IMFORMATION correct once. Let's have fun out there Rick Lake

[BB427]

FUGLY!!!

[decooney]

Rick,
Its sombody else doin' the talking and sending of emails. After about 6 of them... I'd had about enough (to let you guys know) so it came time to throw a little more gas on the fire right in front of the "hornets nest".

[MysteryTrain]

Does anyone know how much one of the Dragon cars costs? To build? To buy used? The thing about Cobra replicas that is so fantastic is that there is such a range of cars to choose from . . . but almost without exception, they are all beautiful. I was first struck by the beauty of the Cobra body, and then hooked by the fact that the cobra replicas represent the pinnicle of inexpensive performance. A really quick, well done FFR can be had for a price in the high 20's, and will look just as stunning (if not more so) than any number of high perfomance cars (Ferrari's, Porsche, Vettes, etc.) at four times the cost, and that same FFR puts up track times that more than hold their own by comparison. It's obvious the Dragon can compete on the track. Can the Dragon compete in the dollars for performance dept. too? It is pretty clear how it does in the style dept. (meet my sister, the AZTEK)

[RICK LAKE]

Decooney Hi Duane I didn't know about the e-mails. I just know John C. His car is amost a lister with a different body. You want to talk about an UGLY CAR LOOK at a CHEETAH. What a car. Similar design. 1 thought in mind. Speed, but can it handle. Thanks for the match and bugs Rick Lake

[Hal Copple]

OK, if you want a really fast, really original, really ugly car, how about a 289 Griffith.

[decooney]

Hey Rick,
that's funny you mention the Cheetah. One of my long time friends (61-62 Vette freak ) has his eyes on a Cheetah this week. Just last night we were teasing that they sort of look like a hacked up Cobra, cutting off most of the nice features, bottom, windshield and worse!

He continues to tell me periodically about "only if" the Cheetah had been put up against the Cobra in more comparisons, how its waaaay lighter than a Cobra,...so on and so forth. This same guy actually likes the styling on 71/72 Novas as well over many other 60s musclecars; not to mention his favorite Hot Rod article was the "Caddy Hack" drag car article. If he does get a Cheetah on the road, I don't think I'll be drag racing him for pink slips, that's for sure.

Go figure - different strokes for different folks. Definitely different.

[Edley Rondinone]

I'll bet the drivers of those Dragon cars have perms, polyester shirts with the top three buttons unbuttoned, hairy chests to the max, lots of gold chains around their necks, wear platform soles on their shoes,(if not white loafers, with a white belt to match!) and use a panelled '80s van (complete with shag carpeting, and portholes on the rear) as their tow vehicles! Just MHO.

[BANDIT 1]

I don't like bagging on other peoples cars, but I will make an exception. I don't care if these cars are faster than a Formula one race car, to say they are ugly is an understatement. How do you spell hideous?

[RRD]

Hal, I prefer to think of my Griffith 400 as having "distinctive" styling. It may not be a beauty queen, but the front end is more like the Daytona Coupe; lower profile and a laid back windshield. My 400 will be making the treck to Racefab in TX very soon, to get new suspension and brakes at all 4 corners, quickchange IRS, fuel cell, 6 point cage- the works. That way I'll be able to pass the straight face test after installing my all aluminum Z351 based 427. No, it's not a Cobra, and it is a bit twitchier with an 85 1/2" wheelbase, but at about 1800 pounds and in excess of 600 hp, it should get the job done. Regards to all.

[Back in Black]

So I have not read the entire thread. BUT the first dragon I saw in Kit Car magazine had such poorly fitted body panels that it was obvious in the pictures. One front fender/clip edge was at least 1 INCH out of alignment. This was a factory built car too! I would have been embarrassed to have the pictures taken, were it me had built it...

[Excaliber]

RRD, can you post a pic or two, maybe in your gallery or here of your or some Griffith?

Such a SHORT wheel base, sounds like an interesting car.

Ernie

[GEORGE ANDERSON]

John is on the way from NH driving the Ruby Car...with no top...
They will have four.....
looking forward to seeing him and the cars....

[Edley Rondinone]

Ernie: Go to any search engine, type in "Griffith 400"; scroll down to #4, "My griffith's History, " and at the end of his webpage, a nice front 3/4 view of his Griffith 400 at the track. Sorry, I wish I could "cut and paste", but I am fairly computer illiterate!

[Bill E]

A red one

[decooney]

I really like that little Griffith. Anything small, with English type styling, and a V8 is magical in my book; wire wheels included.

I'd sure hate to be a ricer up next to that little guy from a stoplight. Speaking of that.... once saw the coolest little Austin Healey Bugeye with a very sanitary install of a 426 Hemi in it. Wheeew. Unbelievable!

[Excaliber]

Hmmmm,,,,I got to fire up my PS2 and launch Gran Tourismo 3 again. I think there was a Griffith, or was that a Griffin in that game?

The Cobra is cool in GT-3, very realistic, squirly coming off the corners, have to ease on the gas or you'll spin.

Ernie

[RRD]

Ernie, my 400 baby is, like every work in process, completely apart prior to its insertion into that smallish wooden crate. Go to www.karkraft.net and check out the white Griffith 400, that's mine. BTW, the lowly 400, in basically original spec, has been world champ FIA pre '72 for quite a few years now, leaving more than a few GT40 owners a bit upset. The most troubling part, according to Chris Schirle, owner of the current FIA champ car, is the GT40s having this "little piece of plastic (____) zip right past them on the straighaways. http://gt-meisterschaft.de/gtm-gtc-2..._fotos_s22.htm is a link to that car's photos. http://www.gspovey.demon.co.uk/garag...zandvoort3.htm is a link to Griffith photos fro Zandvoort '99.

Jack Griffith, a Long Island Ford dealer who concocted these cars was also a dealer for Shelby. He saw the Cobra's success and thought that the lighter TVR chassis would have a weight advantage. Business was doing well until a Port of NY dock strike left poor Jack unable to fill orders, and the cash dwindled until there was no $$ remaining. It's a very interesting car, with an even more interesting story behind it. Unlike Cobras, that enjoyed both much larger production numbers, and both Shelby and Ford's promotional budget and skill; to this day most car buffs have never heard of a Griffith. Mine will likely be at racefab, getting its makeover, for at least a couple of months, when it retuns in the same wooden box, I'll post some photos. Like the Cobra, it's a great part of the '60s "bigger hammer" theory of sports cars. Know what? That's still one hell of a plan.

Roger

[Excaliber]

Ahhhhh,,,,,,,TVR roots. I can dig it. I always did like those TVR's. The Grifith is an interesting and no doubt potent car that looks brutal. The roof line appears a little tall, making the overall package a bit on the boxy side for my taste. Which got me to thinking.......

ART and DESIGN:

As far as "looks" go, the Cobra is hard to beat. It's softer more flowing lines give it an almost feminine look at first glance. But look again, those flared fenders and low stance show that this car is distinctivly "manly" even "brutal". I think thats the main reason it appeals to all groups of people. It's "cute" and at the same time "serious".

Few cars have been able to capture both of these qualities in their design. Imagine some of the "old timers" with flared fenders, bulging muscles and yet, those "soft" lines. The early Jaguar XKE, what would it look like done in Cobra 427 styling? The Triumph GT-6 could pull it off, or is it to small overall? Certainly the the Austin Healey 100 and 3000 series cars would look great done up in a "Cobra" styling.

Ferrari Testarosa, ala 1959? NOT! To aggressive to be mistaken for "cute", THAT car is very serious! The GT-40? The Shelby Coupe? Very nice, but do they combine both "soft" and "brutal" in the art of design?

I wonder how the Griffith would look with a "choped" top? Would love to see some examples of these cars done in "Photo Shop" with a "Cobra" influence.

,,,,,,just rambling.

Ernie

EDIT: Dragon Roadsters pictured on page one? Not even in the ball park of "timeless" design.