how fast are the Daytona Coupes?

[anchor2]

SPF's site has a quote that the Coupe is a 200+mph car. Has anyone heard of these street cars braking the 200 barier?

[Ron61]

Anchor2,

I can't answer your question positively, but I have a couple of friends who race Daytonas and they have 700+ horsepower engines in them. Both told me when I asked that they had been as high as 182 and maybe if they had a long enough straight stretch and enough nerve their cars might hit the 200 mark. I think for a street version that is actually driveable on the street to hit 200 would be a stretch. I am not saying they won't do it, but I don't think I would want to be driving the car if it does do it.

Ron

[Randall Thomas]

Anchor, I have had the opportunity to be involved with some amazing company in doing some careful research and indepth discussions with the builders and designers of the Superformance-Brock Coupe. However, once you begin discussing this particular car with them, I soon realized just how much more there is to this car than it just "happening" to appear like some vintage car of the 60's. As a matter of fact, that would be it's least important feature in comparison.

The aerodynamics of this car have been scrutinized in a fashion that would make NASA envy and a Winston Cup team smile. Peter Brock, who was responsible for the advanced aerodynamic leaps and bounds the original Daytona Coupe made in the 60's, was held back in a time before VCR's were even invented, yet look what he created. Now, 30 years later in a time when man going to the moon is "boring", Peter has learned a lot along the way and always wanted to build it "perfect" after all these years later. He and others applied this modern technology to "his" car that earned his name on the side.

With the active involvement of Bob Olthoff's incredible experience in driving and racing all these cars in the 60's along with his son Dennis's extreme experience in the modern cars along with Peter Brock at the drawing board not to mention SPF chassis designer Bob Negstad who was the assistant to Klaus Arning (head of chassis design for Ford) did the real pencil work on the GT 40's then ground breaking suspension.

I beleive they truly have outdone themselves. Oh and lest we forget the active involvement of Jack Roush in this project as well in the desgin process of the cars componenty. So in effect, both NASA and NASCAR influences are indeed a part of this car after all. Now add the meticulous perfectionism of Jim Price having a hand in making sure every single component on this car is perfect before release, and the result is something simply amazing.

Besides all this, I had inquired with Peter regarding the top speed of the Superformance-Brock Coupe, and what I discovered was very interesting. I was told that the aerodynamics of this car FAR outperformed the GT-40's that were so famous. Stability at 200 is reported to be very impressive. The new car made by Superformance is heads and shoulders above anything else that has been ever produced on this level and category.

So what is the top speed of this car? While they are confident that 200+ is no problem, I did ask about 210? 220? 230? And when it went to 230 what I got back was, "it's possible."And I might be able to leak a little previewe that the actual proof of that number being a reality may be officially laid down before too long.

But in the mean time, for an owner not wishing to hit the sound barrier, just driving it along at a mere 150 is very enjoyable, not to mention taking the wife out to dinner at a casual 65 mphon the freeway. something the vintage car could NEVER do. ;-)

/Randall

[Excaliber]

The recently "discovered" and as yet unrestored Coupe ran at Bonneville. STILL painted on the door is "227 mph". That was with the original (still in the car) 289.

Top speed has far more to do with aerodynamics than it does with raw horse power. Some "race" cars have been known to exceed 200 with as little as 350 h.p.

Considering they had no wind tunnel and aerodynamics was little understood at the time it's an incredible design.

Ernie

[Ron61]

Randall,

Thanks for the information. The two that I mentioned in my post were designed on the original basis and I had read that the new one was far superior in all ways but this is the first actuall breakdown of much of the imporvements. After reading your stats, I don't doubt that it would break the 200 MPH barrier.

Ron

[Randall Thomas]

Originally posted by Excaliber

The recently "discovered" and as yet unrestored Coupe ran at Bonneville. STILL painted on the door is "227 mph". That was with the original (still in the car) 289.
Ernie

Ernie, the vintage Daytona that was taken to Bonneville broke some 23 records on November 6th in 1965.

That Bonneville record may be broken sooner than many might think. Stay tuned.

/Randall

[Excaliber]

Wait,,,,,,,,I must have heard that wrong. Are you suggesting some of the 1965 records are STILL standing???? Is that possible in our high tech, wind tunnel design modern technology day and age?

,,,,,,it's only been a mere 35+ years. Man, were the Coupes THAT good?? Amazing!

Ernie

[Tony Ripepi]

Hello Anchor2,

Don't know yet about my Daytona......nor have I ever seen any of the original Coupes on the track. 200 MPH is a scary place on the ground and you need a long straight away to get there. Saw Scott Douglas's Coupe at Sears but, he never pushed it that hard....his is one of the old coupes built by Contemporary and follows the form factor of the originals.

Talked to Bondurant when he was here at Sears Point and his opinion is the FFR Coupe has the capability but, does not need more than 400HP to do it, more to do with spring rates, set-up etc. than engine power.

Tony R.

[anchor2]

Thanks for the info everyone. Sounds like a very impressive car.

[Randall Thomas]

Originally posted by Excaliber

Wait,,,,,,,,I must have heard that wrong. Are you suggesting some of the 1965 records are STILL standing???? Is that possible in our high tech, wind tunnel design modern technology day and age? ,,,,,,it's only been a mere 35+ years. Man, were the Coupes THAT good?? Amazing!
Ernie

Ernie, I'm unsure of exactly which specific records still hold in the National and International Class "C" category (where the Coupe competed), but some I'm sure still are standing, simply due to their incredible feat of endurance. For instance one that I recall was something you don't think about happening at Bonneville... and that's the endurance record where the Coupe set an average of 170 mph for 12 hours! That was just one of the 23 records set in November of '65 by the driving team of Craig Breedlove, Tatersoe and Tom Greatorex. 500 mile Nascar races take 3 hours to perform and rarely dom they average 170. Now, consider TWELVE hours at 170!!!! And that was almost 30 years ago.

And you're right, not only were the coupes good back then, but Peter Brock confidently states that the new Superformance-Brock Coupe is incredibly better than the one he designed back in the 60's. And why shouldn't it? He knew it best back then, he knows it even better now.

One interesting note in history was when he fought tooth and nail back then add his wing spoiler on the back. Peter said he knew this would stabilize the car at higher speeds, but of course in an era with a lack of aerodynamic knowledge, tunnels and testing, everyone rebuked his theories. Finally they let him have his way and he was right, it stabilized the car incredibly. Peter, even back then, had an uncanny "eye for aerodynamics", knowing what would work without the advantage of a tunnel to test it in. That's probably Peter's biggest gift, among many other skills and attributes.

Over the decades Peter "wished he could have another chance" in fixing all the little details that no one could have ever anticipated back in the Dark Ages of the 60's... and Jimmy Price let him have that chance with this car.

The Superformance-Brock Coupe, they way I understand it, was never really intended to be a "reproduction" of anything in particular. It just so happened Peter was incredibly familiar with his original body design and knew exactly what and where to make the improvements he's always wanted to. I myself was stunned to find out that the GT-40 drivers were somewhat "scared" by the wicked and unpredictable handling of their GT-40's, and after jumping out of the '40 and into the Coupe with the spoiler on the rear deck, they reported it was *much* more stable and predictable at those same higher speeds, and higher. By looking at the '40's sleek and arrow-like styling, one would assume that car could hit 300... but by the racers testimony, not so.

And did you know that Peter Brock also created the striping design on the GT-350 Mustangs too? The guy is simply amazing, and that would be one of his minor contributions to history ;-)

By the way, some are calling the Superformance-Brock Coupe their "dream car"... but in reality, it is Peter Brock's Dream Car :-)

/Randall

[HIQ]

One thing I know for sure.....The Brock Coupe is faster than I am!

[CSX 4027]

Yeah they are fast but what if you have to turn with those leaf springs? Is the SPF a leaf spring car. The AC chassis while stoudt would take more than my 2 balls to go 200.

[Randall Thomas]

Steve, the only leafs under the Superformance-Brock Coupe are the ones on the road after an autumn freeze. ;-)

It's all state of the art suspension with influences from Roush engineers and one of the designers of the original GT40 and 427 Suspensions who also happened to be SPF's own engineer, Bob Negstad.

Peter Brock admits the coupe is very comfortable, stable and secure at very high speeds. Many who have proven those speeds to themselves have reported that it is unlike anything they've ever driven before.

Here are some photos of one Superformance-Brock Coupe's suspension just out of the crate and not set up yet...

http://performanceunlimited.com/scof/coupe.html

/Randall

[Cal Metal]

Ernie:

That 227 mph designation was something Phil Spector put on that car in the early 70s. The car was never close to that number. Remington told me that with a 430 hp 289 cid engine--which was just about the max they could reliably obtain from the SB Ford-- the Daytona was capable of around 180-185 mph, tops.

I am speaking of the original Coupes. I have limited knowledge of what tricks the Brock/SPF Coupe has and what that car might be able to do.

[CSX 4027]

Now I just need Danny O to throw me the keys for a test drive..
It looks nice. The rest depends on price(not Jim)but $$$

[Excaliber]

Thanks Cal, it does now appear from a "couple" of sources that the 227 mph was more a "show car" number than a real number.

I recall reading about the endurance run with the Coupe. The record is really something. What surprised me was the fact that they had some kind of "problem" with the car and lost a lot of time in the pits while setting that record! To "average" 170 AND spend some time in the pits they must have been running it close to full throttle the whole time.

Impressive performance for the ENGINE to say the least (a 289 with Webers if I'm not mistaken)!

Ernie

You know a while back I made a comment about "rumors" I had heard/read about the GT-40 being somewhat of a handfull at high speeds. I was kinda "shot down" for makeing such a statement........... Perhaps I wasn't that far off the mark!

[grumpy]

SoCalTiming Assoc.,
No speed above 200 was ever recorded by a Daytona coupe at the "flats" or the "lakes".
However a COBRA 427 of Kevin Doheney of UNION OIL ran 221.3 at Bonneville in 1968.
If we all go to the "kept" records, this one sticks, the coupes never went that fast in any of the records of that day.
grumpy

[Bruce Robles]

I saw and sat in the new Brock car at Monterey in August. It's beautiful. The car is a few inches bigger all around than the original because it's a road car and they wanted to make it more comfortable both in entry and exit, and the ride as well.
It has coil over independent suspension on all 4 corners with a powder coated frame.
It has a Carbon-Kevlar and glass body that is as smooth as steel. (not fiberglass). The interior is just *****in and is available with 2 seat options for smaller or larger people, it has a removable steering wheel, roll up windows, Air Conditioning and a 500+HP Roush 402 fuel injected engine and a 6 speed Tremec Trans.
The Superformance guys who were there said the car on display had a rear end ratio that I can not remember, but would easily push the car over 200mph with the engine and trans combo.
I've known and worked with many of the Shelby guys in the post Shelby years on CAM-AM, TRANS-AM and Champ cars and having had 3 Shelby automobiles in the family in the sixties,('64 289 Cobra, '65 GT-350R, and a '66 GT-350 street car) I was pretty up to date on things going on at the factory. 180+ was about as much as the could ring out of the coupes with the 4 speed transmissions they ran. Also the Weber carbed 289's they ran were more like 385+ HP because all the races they ran were long distance enduros and they were reliable at that number. Shelby sold complete crate Cobra engines w/Webers rated at 385HP. The 4 barrel carbed crate motor for the Mustangs were rated at 350+HP hence the name GT-350.
The SPF Brock Coupe roller will sell for around $63,000.00 complete less engine and trans.

[Cal Metal]

The GT-350 came equipped with a 289 cid, 271 hp "K" Code engine that was tweaked to SAI's specification for an advertised horsepower rating of 306.

If I remember correctly, Bruce, the "350" designation is attributed to a distance issue of some kind between two buildings on SAI's manufacturing site.

[mr bruce]

There was an article on a Contemporary Daytona Coupe owned by Monty Gatti( the cat that did R+D for Contemporary) that was built to run Bonneville in one of the old kit car mags. It had a stretched wheelbase and aero mods to the body, ran close to 230 if I remember correctly.