Origins of the cobra name

[roadsternut]

In my never ending quest to learn as much as I can about cobras,
I am curious how the cobra name was first thought of as applied to these cars.
In a couple of books that I have, one states that the name was not yet conceived when CSX2000 was built at the AC cars factory in 1962.
In another book, I read that the UK factory ledger for CSX2000 described the car as an "AC Ace Cobra".

Some of the folks that I have talked to over the past couple of years insist that Caroll Shelby came up with the name.

I know there are very knowledgeable people on this board and hope someone can shed some light in this subject matter.

[Excaliber]

It's controversial at best. There was the "dream" thing C.S. mentioned once. Others say it has to do with a brazing process common to the time, Copper and Brass I think it was. COBRA may have actually been stamped on some pieces in referrence to the brazing process.

It's all good and makes for a great part of the "legend".

Ernie

[grumpy]

a Dream, yours and mine also....
Shelby stated in 1962 that he woke up one January morning and wrote down the name COBRA on a pad that he had and went back to sleep. Possibly it really happened just like that, he stated so then, and still stands by the story.
There were three other cars that carried the name COBRA before he used it, if you count the "COBRA" engined Crosley, named for the "COpper BRAzing" technique of the engine block components. My grandfather had one I rode in, not that that means a darned thing, just remembered the little emblem for it.
Grumpy

[Fox]

According to AC Cobra by Rinsey Mills, in 56/57 after being named SI's Driver of the Year, CS dreamed of building his own sports cars. This dream, Mills implies, was given a name... Cobra. As I read it , this was long before the Hurlock / Shelby version of the American V8-engined (260 cu.in.) AC Ace of about 62.

It's in writing, it must be true???

[Excaliber]

Fox,,,,,it's on the Web now, so it MUST be true! ha ha

Ernie

[427sharpe]

CS hisownself has told the 'dream' version limitless times at SAAC conventions. Just as above he says the name came to him in a dream.

[CRZN427]

I over heard one person talking about the origination of the Cobra name, which he had discovered during an extensive fact finding mission.

He said that Shelby used to race Crosleys, including the one that had the COpper-BRAss, engine in his early days. There was, alegedly, even a logo that mimicked the current one with the standing snake and the word COBRA across the lower portion.

He believes that the "dream" was, more or less, a staged event and that Shelby took the logo, and the name, without giving proper credit to the originator.

I hope I didn't misunderstand anything I might have heard.

[Excaliber]

Credit to whom and when does it apply?

I don't think we have to "credit" somebody for everything that happens in life. When I learn about a great idea or a trick of the trade from someone, I'm grateful. When I USE that trick of the trade it becomes mine. When I teach it to someone else, it becomes theres. Some where along the line the "trick" get modified, improved upon, who knows where it originated in the big picture of time.

Where ever Shelby got the inspiration for the name, it's his!

Ernie

[CRZN427]

If someone has a license, or registration, on a particular idea they can expect to be legally protected against having someone else claim the right, and origiality of that idea.

If the "borrowed" idea is put into "production" the original owner of the idea can claim a "royalty" or have the operation shut down.

Shelby was not the originator of the big powerful engine in a small light weight car, nor was he the originator of the Cobra name, or logo (from the source I overheard).

Shelby got a great break, in the form of support from Fords interest in getting into internationsl racing (and retaliation against Ferrarri), and was able to make the Cobra name mean more than a certain metal mix in an inexpensive car.

If ownership means nothing, what was the "lawsuit" all about? Why does Ferrarri jump on anything else that proports to be one of theirs? What happened to the New York reporter?

Teaching an idea does not include license to plagerize the idea. Learning from others ideas is, supposed to stimulate the thought process so that more original ideas come to be, not more claims to the original idea.

Just some of my rambling thoughts, you are welcome to accept, reject or use any of them that are stated here. I have other ideas that are my own, that are not offerd here.

[DKing]

Call the Library of Congress. If you have written an original work, be it fiction, nonfiction, or technical, and have a printed copy of this work, you own the work and all the rights associated with that original work. It doesn't even need to have the copyright "C" on it.

That being said, he're Shelby's written work from 1965, in "The Cobra Story":

"When the first car arived in Santa Fe Springs, although it bore the designation CSX0001 (Carroll Shelby Experimental) we already had a name for it. While the machine was on its way from England a strange thing happened. One night I had a dream in which I saw the name "Cobra" on the front of the new car. I woke up and jotted the name down on a pad wich I kept by my bedside---a sort of ideas pad---and went back to sleep. Next morning when i looked at teh name "Cobra," I knew it was right. This had to be it. But when I decided to call my car the Cobra, we ran into an unexpected problem while getting the paperwork ready to apply for a copyright. It suddenly tuned up that years before Crosley had built an engine which they had called a "Cobra," though for very different reasons.

[DKing]

Oops! Pardon the typo's! I inadvertently triggered the post before I had proofread it. Nevertheless, this account places the origin of the "Cobra" name with C.S. upon the delivery of the first car from AC.

The quote goes on as follows:

"The little Crosley overhead-camshaft mill had been COpper BRAzed---get the idea? Fortunately, however, it had passed through nine different companies with the engine, rights, and patents, etc. changing hands each time, and not one of those nine successive firms had ever used the name "Cobra." It therefore turned out that the name of Cobra no longer could be considered as a valid trade name insofar as Crosley was concerned, and we were able to copyright it."

The story goes on to tell how Pete Brock designed the new Cobra emblem, but you'll have to find your own copy of "The Cobra Story" if you want more.

I have no reason whatsoever to believe that Mr. Shelby has misrepresented or misconstrued anything about the origins of the Cobra. Perhaps we can all honor him with the courtesy of the benefit of the doubt?

Dking

[Excaliber]

My ex-wife is a chemist, she gaurds her "intellectual" property very closely. But many times it is complex to determine where to draw the line. Even if it IS an original idea, is it worth the trouble of protecting it, or is it better just to "share" it with others.

Filing for the name/idea IS the key! I can easily understand the name "Cobra" being protected by Ford (who OWNS the name). Shelby SOLD it to them.

You think Crosely deserves ANY recognition at all? I don't! But it's an interesting footnote in history and MAY have been the inspiration for a dream!

Ernie

[CRZN427]

DKing,

That is an interesting story, and it does ring a faint bell.

I had a recollection of the "dream" but apparently not enough of the whole story to remember the "Crosley ownership of the name" part of the story.

My comment on the Crosley was from an "overheard" conversation from an individual who had done extensive research into Shelby's dealings.

Could be that I remember wrong, could be that the information was not fully discussed when I was within earshot.

Shelby owned the name, applied it to a very respectable car and later sold it to Ford, but my earlier comment was that it wasn't his original name to start with.

According to your presentation, he did the proper thing in attempting to secure the name for his own copyright, or what ever it would be called.

[DKing]

CRZN427:
I hope you didn't think I was singling you out in my earlier posting, for I wasn't. I felt compelled to post my opinion to offset the overall undertone of Shelby-bashing I perceived in this thread --- but not necessarily from your posting. Be it timing or genius, Shelby was successful in creating one sensational and beautiful car. This, in and of itself, deserves respect.

You're in Morro Bay, aye? I went to school at Cal Poly there in San Luis Obispo (BSEE '92). Loved that area. Lots of nice roads for cruising a Cobra. When I get mine, that is one of my first destinations, via the coast highway from Carmel.

[CRZN427]

DKing,

I didn't suspect that you had done anything beyond providing information to the discussion.

When I post, it is usually my opinion, unless I give crecit to someone or some publication, and my opinion is always open to discussion.

That is one way to gain knowledge, say something and have others add to it or make suggestions as to where I was not on the beam.

We have lived on the Central Coast for 13 years now. Some in SLO and some in Morro Bay.

You are correct in that we have some very nice roads for Cobra touring, in addition we have some nice weather to go along with them.

Now if I had my car done, I could enjoy more of both.

[Edley Rondinone]

The COpper BRAzed story seems a little far-fetched, to me! I much would rather believe the "Woke up, wrote 'COBRA' on a pad, and went back to sleep" story.............JMHO...!!!