cobra manufacturers challenge

[valpodoc]

A recent thread concerning a replica manufact challenge created a good deal of interest. It seems as always the devil is in the details. I suggest we pass around the hat to create a winners purse. Nothing like a little cash to drive the event. Anyone interested??
Roland

[grumpy]

val,

Kinda tough expecting entered COBRA manufacturers to truck a car to WILLOW, supporting repair items=a car in parts, all the eating/hotel expenses, light pay for team/crew.friends, now you expect us to send cash so we can pay the winner.
Or are the contender cars owners exempt on this?

grumpy

"FIA COBRA corner carver"

[Excaliber]

,,,,,,were gonna need a really BIG hat.

Ernie

[valpodoc]

If the interest is what it is, we should be able to put together a purse.
Roland

[Richard Hudgins]

Grumpy,

I picked the Willow COCOA event in October in order to allay some of the expenses that you speak of. Virtually every manufacturer has a Southern California presence of some nature. Therefore travel is not a big deal. (Also, the weather is a known quantity at Willow in October, Sunny 70 degrees and windy. This cannot be said for very many other tracks in the US.)

As the cars have to be dead stock and run inexpensive crate engines, the investment will be minimal and there should not be any need for spares. We have cars that have this combination with 40k on them with the only failures being the odd alternator now and again. (And these cars have run many open track days and events.)

Also, the cars could be offered for sale after the event with the dashboards signed by whatever pro driver is picked. Also a special commemorative dash plaque could be affixed proclaiming the car as a factory participant in the event.

As an aside, the cars should a bit more attractive to a buyer as they would know that the car was constructed as a "best of breed" by the manufacturer .

Valpodoc

I do not think that prize money is needed. There would be excellent press for any manufacturer involved. It should get editorial space in certain magazines. (This of course will be up to whomever organizes the event.) It would also create a lot of “BUZZ” in the industry and with prospective customers. Much more important then a bit of prize money, in my opinion.

Also, the COCOA event has a very large participant base and it would certainly add value to the Cobra manufacturer challenge.


But, I have never been one to turn down a buck.

Wait a minute, you are not talking about appearance money are you?

[valpodoc]

Rich, I agree with all of the above. I suggest prize money not so much for the winner but to generate interest by the manufacturers. I would suggest that if a number of members fed the pot manufacturers would be less likely to find excuses not to participate. Hell, make it a raffle.... However its done there sould be some penalty for not showing up. As we've already seen the interest of the observers may be greater than the producers.
Roland

[MysteryTrain]

Considering how wimpy (non-existent) the response was from other makers, I suggest everybody get a "certificate of participation" and little stickers that have smiley faces and say, "Everybody is a winner!" That way, nobody gets their feelings hurt . Let's be sensitive, right? Why give the fastest car maker the goods? After all, we want it to be FAIR to everyone! In fact, why race at all? We'll just get all the Cobra builders to sit in a cirlce and talk about their feelings.

Memo to cobra builders who wimped out: Suck it up! This is a good idea. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure it out . . . but apparently you DO have to be a JBL engineer .

Good luck with Challenge Part II.

MT

[RICK LAKE]

I think it's a nice idea. It should stop here. Nothing good will come out of this. You cannot compare these cars. They are engineered differently. For one ERA would not comment to this. It's a higher priced car than the FFR,SFP, Backdrft, Lone star and the others. You allready have a event that puts one car against another, it's called The Run&Gun. It is on an even playing field as possible. There are motor,tire, and driver limits for the classes. 3 different types of racing, autocross,roadracing,( I know it only a flat track onto the speedway track) and drag racing. I know that a couple of years ago that they had a problem with too many car and a bad accident that a man was burnt and alot of people did not get there alotted time to race. The event now has extra days incase of this problem or rain. You can't compare apples to oranges,to grapes to lemons, All the cobra manufactures need to get along without the MY CAR IS BETTER THAN YOURS. I have an ERA and it's a great car. It's not a Shelby or a Kirkland or a Herb adams VSE cobra. Let this idea pass. If you want to see who got the best car come to Run&Gun or a SPF race or FFR spec race. My vote for the best cobra is Dick Smith's cobra 198 and Lynn Parks collection. Add the 6 Daytona coupes, a few GT-40's and list goes on. Put this to bed. my 2 cents Rick Lake

[coyled]

The good that will come out of it is the fun that will be had by all. Also, I would bet that more cobra's have been driven at willow springs over the years then any other track in the country and it is the original test track for shelby, the one he used in the 60's. I would think there are records somewhere of what these cars ran in the 60's in stock form on stock rubber. I know there is a road course event at run n gun but it is on an oval converted into a road course. Its not the same as a dedicated road course with elevation changes and it has never included a stock from the factory class. I would bet that the times will be pretty close and that their might be some surprises. This could have some backlash for jbl or renegade if their cobra's are not much faster or are slower than say an ERA. FFR could have some bragging rights if they do well at their price point. Friday open track day at willow has plenty of time and space to do this in conjection with their weekend event. Scott

[valpodoc]

I think this idea has become misunderstood. I like the idea of different manufacturers getting together to show case their stuff. Not a winner take all I'm the best race. I agree it would seem that apples and oranges should not be compared but enjoyed for what they are. It would be nice to but a number of cars (not ringers but good examples of a type) on the track and have a group of professionals evaluate each for strengths and weeknesses. The winner would be the entire community including the manufacturers who could use the info as R&D. Bring it on.
Roland

[Kputz]

What would it prove?? You are now venturing into the foothills of the mountain called "competition". Your premise is weak however. Every racer knows, to compete, you play the money game. So, you mandate a specific "crate" motor. They do that in racing. The guys who run at the front are the ones willing to buy 10 crates and dyno each one. You'd be shocked at the differences you'll find (often 10% or higher). He'll do the same thing with 30 "spec" exhausts, 50 "spec" suspensions, and any number of "spec" anything else you want to "spec". And we haven't even mentioned yet, who will drive these various wonder cars. Boris Said for SF?? Galati for FF?? Shumacher for SA?? What will be proved, in the outcome, is who wanted to win bad enough. A manufacturer would be nuts to get involved, and you'd be equally foolish to put much stock in any outcome.

[Excaliber]

I just don't see it as a "who wins" event. I see it as a gathering of the clan, a celebration of the cars, and I think it's a great idea!

Ernie

[flipper35]

If you can't put much stock in the outcome, why does Car and Driver do similar comparison tests all the time? Even when they test minivans performance is a big factor.

[coyled]

Kputz, nothing is ever really proven anyways. So what. We can all draw our own conclusions. Same driver for all. It would be fun and provide lots of exposure for all. Scott

[Kputz]

Car and Driver takes a stock car delivered by the manufacturer and Car and Driver tests the car, they don't allow the manufacturer to test his car. They are also pretty wize to the tricks and know what to look for in the way of trick set ups. They also have 30 million monthly subscribers who would like nothing better than to hear how Crysler tried to skew some results. Clout like that discourages cheating.
If nothing is proved, why would a manufacturer get involved? Somebody, after all, must finish last.

[valpodoc]

Kputz, the goal is not to discover the best cobra. As I've said earlier on other threads, bring five or ten cars, a build sheet and cost with each. Have three or four drivers of different capabilities test each on a set track. Individuals can reach their own conclusions based on performance. It sould be fun, not a chore. Manufacturers could get all sorts of exposure....free. The only loser would be those that did not participate.
Roland

[RICK LAKE]

Valopdoc Ronland In a prefect world this is a nice idea. THIS IS NOT A PERFECT WORLD. I was at an event a couple years ago and what you want to do turned into a pissing contest between to companys, 1 had a ringer in the wrong class with softer tires than allowed for that class and was moved up. Finger pointing started and it was not what this event was to do. The event is for fun and for average drivers and cars to run against the clock for best time, not for who's company was in first place and how many trophy they won. Then run around and use this as a advertizement we make better car than anyother companys. My cobra is under powered to some in my class of street at R&G. I am building a better motor for next year, the guy at beat me lthisyear was slower than me last year. The bar gets raised every year. The point is that there are about 100 drivers that can drive a cobra, corvette,porsch,viper, mini cooper to it's limits. The cobra is a great product that 50 companys make, some cars look great some look like How would you like to be the company that is the slowest or poorest designed. How long would your company last with this kind of knowledge being spread around. Bet you are bankrupt in a year. No body wins this kind of test. There are shows all over the country if you want a get together. DV4 is the perfect event for seeing all the different types of cobras and have a great time without the my car is better than your's crap. Let it GO Rick Lake

[Excaliber]

Well not everybody is buying a Cobra because it's the "fastest" one out there. In fact, I think thats true for a LOT of us. I know even a "slow" Cobra is STILL an awesome ride.

In fact I bet MOST owners are not about being the "fastest" Cobra out there, there just looking for the "one" that fits their budget and their taste. Those that DO race and like to go fast and have the BIG horse power cars I believe are the vocal minority.

But I'll grant you this: It IS those cars we use as the "standard" to compare our cars too. We just don't talk about our "stock" 302's as much as the guy with a HUGE block, ha ha! I'll take reliabilty and reasonable performance over BIG horse power and a harsh ride (and I don't think I'm alone on that)!

Ernie

[valpodoc]

Rick,
I agree, testosterone is a potent drug. Maybe the same result could be had by having owners of representative cars use them in a similar event.. half a dozen cars, two or three drivers. Maybe a Bondurant in AZ. Have Bondo himself evaluate the ride. Just an idea. seems like I've stirred the muck enough. Roland

[B. SMITH]

SOME VERY INTERRESTING POINTS OF VIEW.
I MUST ADMIT THAT THERE ARE SOME ISSUES THAT I HADN'T THOUGHT OF.

GREAT DISCUSSION.

B. SMITH