shell valley rear axle question.

[red99z]

Hi everyone

I noticed today I have gear oil leaking from the axle tube right behind the disk brake. the kit came with no seals and the instructions mentioned nothing about a seals (its only leaking from one side). my questions are... should there be seals? if not then how can I stop the leak? I was thinking some RTV around the outer part of the bearing before I push it into the tube but I don't know if that will work.

By the way, Its a ford 9" rear.

thanks for the help.

RED

[hog]

If I remember correctly there is an O-Ring that goes around the outside of the wheel bearing where it slides into the housing.
hog

[blykins]

There isn't an O-Ring...but it should have a seal that drives in to the axle housing before you put the axle in. Did you install the axles yourself? If not, I'd say whoever put it in put it in crooked...

[Excaliber]

The seals are behind the "press to fit" bearings on the axle. To replace the seal the axle bearings have to be cut off or pressed off the axle, which destroys them. This is done by a machine shop, not in your garage.

On the outer mose edge of the axle is a four bolt plate, may or may not have a "gasket". THAT plate is what holds the seal and bearing in place. The plaste gasket (if any) is just to keep dust and dirt OUT, not oil in! The "seal" holds the oil in. Afer the seal comes the bearing itself. After that there is a press fit retaining ring snugged up against the inner bearing race.

Cut the retainer with a chisel and hammer but good luck doing that to the bearing itself! Aint gonna happen!

Ernie

Edit: This of course assumes you really DO have a 9". the "removable" carrier or center section type rear end. The 8" is totally different and the seals can easily be replaced as they go in the housing, NOT on the axle.

[blykins]

Hold up Ernie...

If his is exactly like mine, the seal presses into the axle housing. I just did this like 3 weeks ago, so it's fresh in my mind. It's not like the ones I've seen in the past...the seal does not go on the axle itself behind the bearing.

It even states in the Shell Valley manual that the seal is to be driven into the axle housing with a seal driver, then the axle shaft (with bearing and retainer pressed on) slides into the housing...However, if you're using the SVO brakes, the brake drum backing plate goes on first....the axle slides in, then the little retaining plate bolts on.

It really shocked my Dad and I both...but that's the way it worked. Seal drives into the housing....I didn't have to put it on the axle shaft itself.

I do have the 9" rearend also...


Red...are you sure it's rearend grease and not like brake fluid or something?

If it is rearend grease, you can pull the axle and see if there is a seal in the housing. If it's like my Shell Valley, you won't find one on the shaft. Unbolt the four bolts, and pull the axle shaft out. You'll probably have to use a slide hammer, because that bearing is pretty much a press fit into the housing. The axle seal is probably about 4-5" inside...if there is one in there, I'd suspect it's put in crooked...If there's no one there, it's no big deal to buy one and drive it in.

If you wish, I've documented each step of my build so far with pics...I can send you a pic of where the seal sits.

[Sydney]

Hello fellas,

This is an interesting thread. I just did this about a month ago. After staring at the axle bearing for quite some time, I decided that the sealed bearing as is will seal about as good as anything else I could install. So I chose not to install any seals. Also on my 9" It looked like that the axle retainer might interfere with where the axle seal should go. I have the Moser axles with the bearings already pressed on, and the Wilwood brake set up. So far no leaks. (Knock on wood). I did use a lot of grease when I pressed the axle on.

Sydney

[blykins]

I wish you a leak-free ride... :-)

I'm like you Sydney...the bearing is pretty much a press fit. I don't know how that thing would leak, but I just went ahead and followed the manual. When you order the SVO brakes, they give you an extra spacer that goes between the axle and axle housing flanges. That would keep you from bolting everything together too tight and crimping the seal inside.

I kinda like the bearing setup better...instead of having a two-piece bearing and race, you just have a sealed bearing.

[Rick Parker]

Some applications will use a sealed ball type bearing that require a seal to be installed down inside the axle tube about 4 inches inside from the bearing itself. In some cased a higher capacity type cone & roller (Timken set 20) are used that have a seal that is installed while the bearing cone is being pressed onto the axle shaft. This seal (part of Timken set 20) fits between the axle retainer (retains the axle in the housing with 4 - 3/8" or 1/2" bolts) and the cone then the bearing assemly and retainer is pressed on. I am told the later does NOT use the seal that is otherwise installed into the axle tubebecause it gaines its lube from the gear oil. The cone type bearing will accept more thrust
and is a better choice for this application in my opinion, as we
slide in four wheel drifts through the neighborhood.

The conventional seal is only used when using the sealed "ball type bearing assembly". They do not require additional lubrication. If you forget ito install the seals you WILL ultimately have gear lube leaking from the axle flanges.

As a side note the above mentioned cone type bearing by way of design will widen the track about .100 per side, compared to the ball bearing type.

Rick

[Excaliber]

Rick your onto it. The STANDARD 9" Ford rear (removable center section) did not come with "sealed bearings", and replacing the axle seal on these is as I stated above. This style bearing MUST get "oiled" from the rear end oil in the tube of the housing.

Sounds to me like Shell Valley and some others have modified the Ford axles/housing to accept sealed bearings or a non standard type of seal for the the bearing area. OR, Ford offered a "light wieght" style 9" that used "sealed bearings"? I am not aware of a "stock" Ford 9" that used "sealed bearings".

Ernie

[blykins]

I have never seen it either...but I think you're onto something Ernie...I'm sure Shell Valley has modified the housings a little when they narrowed them to fit a Cobra.

[red99z]

Thanks for the replies everyone, I'm going to give SV a call just to make sure seals are not needed then i'm going to use a small amount of RTV on the outer part of the bearing. I did notice that there were a few somewhat deep scratches on the surface where the bearing gets pressed into so hopefuly that will do the trick. I'll let you all know how it turns out.

Thanks again
Red

[Excaliber]

Curious......

Are some of you guys mistaking the 8" rear for the 9" rear?

The 8" has a cover that is bolted over the rear center section. Remove the cover to get to the "C" clips that hold the axle in.
The 9" has no cover, you remove te entire "third member" or center section.

Ernie

[blykins]

Ernie..mine is definitely a 9". Actually I think a Ford 8" and a Ford 9" are made exactly the same...where the center section unbolts from the front. The only difference is the size of the ring gear. I think you're thinking of an 8.8" Ford, where the cover comes off the back, and you use C-clips to get the axles out.

The Shell Valley's come with 9" axle housings...I even custom assembled a new Strange center section for mine.

I think what Shell Valley has done, is that when they narrowed the housing to fit inside the wheel wells of the car, they've just made provisions to put the seals inside, and then use sealed bearings.

[blykins]

Here's a pic of the seal in its bore...

[Excaliber]

8.8 is the one with the cover on the back (which I referred to as the 8"). I don't know about an 8" ring gear used in the 9" application, I suppose you could, but I'd still call it a 9".

Good idea modifying the bearing/seals on a 9". A real pain in the butt as built from Ford. That would require special after market axles as the "stock" ones wont have a place for the seal to ride against on the "other side" of the bearing.

Ernie

[blykins]

If you look in Jegs/Summit Racing catalog, there was actually an 8" Ford...I'm pretty sure it was offered in the muscle car era...just exactly like a 9" Ford axle housing, except it was a little smaller and had an 8" ring gear.

[Excaliber]

OK now that we worked out what we got heres what I think about the seal (on a 9" modified):

I WOULD use one! I can see where the "sealed bearing" would "mostly" hold the oil in the "tube" and would not leak. BUT I would be concerned about the rear end oil up against the side of the sealed bearing and possibly "weakening" the side seal on the bearing? OR, oil getting past the side seal and mixing with the "grease" inside the sealed bearing.

In short, yes I WOULD use the seal.

Ernie

[blykins]

I didn't mean to come across as a know-it-all Ernie...I apologize if I did. There was a lot of confusion in this thread...hehehe...just trying to shed some light.

[Junket]

On the 9" that use a outisde seal belive there is spiral on the axel that the seal rides on it feeds the oil to the center (like on the crank seal) if you drive it in too far the spiral can't do its job. Also have to be careful not to crush the spring that suports the seal lip when you slide the axel in.
Ken

[Excaliber]

Heck not at all Blykins! I learned something new myself. I'll keep an eye peeled for a modified axle 9". Sounds interesting.

Red99z, DO let us know what Shell Valley recomends on this seal thing!

Ernie