Cobra Chassis race challenge-one more time

[Richard Hudgins]

OK Folks,

Once again, the thread rears it's ugly little head. Lets do this one more time, shall we?

Please read:

Cobra chassis race challenge-the beginning

From private emails, it seems that 60% are in favor and 40% wish to shoot me for starting the topic.

OK. I'm a big boy. Let us put it to the test one last time.

(I promise! This is the last time this will be mentioned in polite company.)



SO, WHO'S IN AND WHO'S OUT ?????



Let's put the cards on the table. Read em' and weep. Fold em' if you have to.

But let's see where everyone stands.


Note to Moderators: Sorry, have had a few too many JD's and just thought I would stir the pot.

Just ban me and get it over with. There is no hope

[computerworks]

Originally posted by Richard Hudgins


Note to Moderators: Sorry, have had a few too many JD's and just thought I would stir the pot.

Just ban me and get it over with. There is no hope

...not a chance.

This time, we will assign a deputy to monitor the discussion...
...and keep it as sane and objective as possible.

(...or, at least, somewhat on-topic)

Ron
ClubCobra Moderator

[JAM1775]

According to FFR estimates 75-80% of cars built within the past 2 years are running tubular front ends and Pro-shock coilovers all around . About 30% run the IRS rear and 50% (fast rising) run the 3 link rear suspension now standard in their spec racer.
It appears these are the standards for most builds today.
You guys have hatched a great idea that I bet would be a monster event . What a great fund raiser !

[REAL 1]

Richard: I think its a great idea. I also think there should be no problem with a stock spec JBL competing. I don't know why anyone would have a problem with it. Whats the problem? Are they afraid the JBL will out perform their cars? So what. It should with its more advanced suspension set up. Lets see where all these cars stack up and how they compare to each other.

My only thought would be to allow the Shelby 427 compete with a standard spec 427 either aluminum block or iron block. If thats the way the car is made stock/standard spec let them compete and see how it stacks up and other stanadard 427 cars stack up against each other and 351 cars.

[Boudy]

Richard: Screw the idiots and bring your d@mn car like we agreed. Yes there will be a Backdraft present to partake in the festivities.

If you pull out, then we'll pull out, then... then... Well sh!t, then we are no further along than when we started.

To those who feel the need to attack Richard or JBL over hosting this deal:

If you're not a manufacturer, or a sales agent of a manufacturer, what the hell concern is it of yours anyway? You can't compete because you're not invited. If we, "AS THE COMPETITORS" in this event don't particularlly mind who shows up, I seem to be lost as to where your opinion even counts.

Boudy

[decooney]

Richard,

Just set the Date, Time, and Place and Do It!.


- Those in favor will hopefully attend. Just see who attends.

- Nay-Sayers will always be Nay-Sayers. Forgetta Bout 'em! A challenge is a challenge.

- Let the cars and lap times do the talking, and have fun!

- If the 1st challenge race goes well, maybe there will be others.

I'd really like to see what times what JBL, BDRs and others can do. Good stuff. Should be great and I hope to see it.

[coyled]

So, where is FFR, ERA and SPF on this one? Let shelby enter the stock 427 cobra also. Don't make them put a 351 in it, because it would probably be faster with the 351 anyways. Scott

[Dan Stryffeler]

Boudy,

If our opinions don't count, then why put this topic in an open forum? Apparently they do count for something as the opening comments said that "it seems that 60% are in favor..." I take that to mean 60% of the repondants favor it; not 60% of the manufacturers - but I could be wrong.

(Also thought that without customers, it's awful tough to make money as a manufacturer or sales agent, and I thought the point of the challange was to attract potential customers)

If you want the discussion to be private among the manufacturers - take it private, then post the particulars when/if anything gets decided.

But then again, I guess that I am one of the "idiots" - and proud to be in their company.

Sorry, rough day at work

- Dan

[Boudy]

You are correct, the opinions of the community here count. Why else would be hang aroung if they didn't.

My comments are in regards the the persons who took it upon themselves to attack Richard and his business practices. He received emails and what not. It's uncalled for, he did nothing to deserve it, and most of all, he only facilitated a challange the several of us instigated.

We made a challange and Richard took the time to organize and post it for the community. However, some idiots thought it was appropriate to jump his case and send him nasty emails. And now he feels best if he pulls out, that p!sses me off. Several idiots are ruining a really cool challange before the first flag ever drops.

I read your post Dan and it hardly reads like the captions Richard posted from the emails he received. I hardly think you're one of the idiots I referred to.

Let me finish by adding that constructive input counts no matter who it comes from.

Boudy

[Dan Stryffeler]

Boudy,

Thanks for the response, I appreciate it. Sorry about the previous venting.

- Dan

[Richard Hudgins]

Originally posted by REAL 1


My only thought would be to allow the Shelby 427 compete with a standard spec 427 either aluminum block or iron block. If thats the way the car is made stock/standard spec let them compete and see how it stacks up and other stanadard 427 cars stack up against each other and 351 cars.

Real 1,

It's OK with me that Shelby brings a standard 427 car. It is OK with me that any manufacturer brings their car with a 427.

If that is the standard offering, so be it.

My point was to try to take out the horsepower part of the equation in order to compare chassis’s on an equal footing. (And to avoid the spending contest/ringers that one sees at events like the R&G.)

If you have 200 more hp then the next guy at Willow on the big track, you are going to hide a lot of sins as far as how the chassis’s work. The track is a high speed track and horsepower means a lot. (We both know that a 427 car is going to have more than 385hp. They are going to be 525 at least.)

I guess that the best solution would be two classes.

427 engine cars
351 crate engine cars.

Run both the long track and the streets of Willow.

Put them all on the skid pad at the Streets.

Tyres must be Hoosiers on the standard (As offered in sales information) size rims.

If you offer a larger rim and wheel size, run it. (If 50% or more of your sales are in this size.)

Or, everyone run the standard wheel and street tyre configuration that you offer in your sales literature.

But, the chassis must be as advertised. NO trick bits. NO bump steer kits, NO Penske dampers. Etc.

You must run what you sell, with no modifications!!!!!!!!!!!

In other words, CHEATING is not allowed.

If found to be outside of your standard offering. You are out of here. And it will be published as such!!!!

Now, I would like the rest of manufacturers to chime in as to the rules.

Let's get down to brass tacks.


Wait a minute folks!!!!!!!! It just hit me

Jeeze, this is like our congress and Senate, amendments to every simple bill.

You start out with a pure idea, and it gets lobbied into something that nobody recognizes the next day.

But all of the special interests are happy and everyone comes away with nothing.

Boy, was I stupid to start this or what???

Nevermind, think of it as a brain fart.

[jayscobras]

I HAVE BACKED THIS FOR A LONG TIME NOW AND JUST WANT TO TELL YOU THAT I WOULD LOVE TO BE THERE AS A VOLUNTEER AND AN OBSERVER. DON'T LET THIS GET YOU DOWN. JUST KEEP GOING WITH THE PLANNING AND IT WILL PERSERVERE(SP)

THERE ARE NOT VERY MANY REPLICA CARS THAT I HAVEN'T SEEN OR WORKED ON AND I THINK THIS IS GREAT. KEEP THE FAITH!

AS THE WORDS OF THE MOVIE SAY "BUILD IT AND THEY WILL COME"

AS I SAY, "IF YOU BUILD IT AND THEY DON'T COME...SCREW EM AND LET THEM LIVE WITH THEIR MISTAKE"

JAY

[Edley Rondinone]

One question.....1. Will one driver drive all the cars, so that there is no disparate level of driving efficiency? At the start, let ALL the manufacturers bring both big AND small block cars, (IF they offer both sizes). At the end, when all is said and raced, you will have a neat little data base of what each car, at each price level, and at each equipment level, can do on the track. Even let the cars run with the 17" tires, just for a comparison...

[Excaliber]

That 351 vs 427 would be interesting, all though different classes for sure!

I recall an interesting article about the Vette vs the Viper, last year I think it was. The Vette did better in the "twistys" and would build a slight lead. Then come the straight away the Viper got it all back. In the end, a virtual tie on THAT track. The track itself makes a HUGE difference as to which car might be favored!

Ernie

[REAL 1]

Richard: I think you have a great idea and would love to see all manufacturers attend and complete with standard spec cars SB or BB.

With all the cars I just wonder how long the comparison or competition will last with one driver. Why not pick 3 or 4 highly qualified drivers who are neutral and ask that they also write down their driving impressions.

I bet MT, Road and Track and others would be interested in covering such an event.

BB and SB run in different classes but certainly their performances can be compared.

Great idea.

Just do it!

[Boudy]

Richard: I think the key to end the bickering is to move past it. Please email me the rules as you currently envision them. I like what I've heard but would like to review them on paper and offer comments.

Once there is an official set of rules(so to speak), I'll take responsibility to solicite manufacturers and I'll keep a master list of competitors. Probably online or something.

In the spirit of this event, I'd like to offer that I'd would like to see it done at more than on event. It would also be neat to see how the cars shake out from year to year. In a perfect world, this would lead to manufacturers constanly improving their offerings to the public.

However, If no more than just 3 or 4 of us commit to entering, then maybe we'll just have to find one of each car and ensure that the private owner enters it.

Yea, that will show em.

Boudy

[Excaliber]

Road and Track and some of the other "mags" out there occasionally test cars by having several of their "staff" drive them and then rate them on various aspects.

I like that kind of feed back, as every staff member seems to have a different opinion than the others on the various aspects.

Then the final results are "averaged" between the "test" cars. Just a thought about the "driver" problem.....

If you had mulitple opinions from mulitple drivers would you also include their observations concerning:
Comfort, looks, options, price, etc.?

Ernie

[coyled]

Forget the road and track staff. They are used to late model easy to drive fast cars with comfort. They know little about cobra's and have little experience with them. I could care less about there comments, which wouldn't be very nice. Now, put John Morton or Boris Said in the drivers seat and I am all ears. Plus, the times are what will matter. Scott

[Dominik]

interesting,

considering the that BDR, former KCC in south-africa switched to using BMW suspension in 2001 beacause jaguar got too unavailable...

I just bought a car over here with BMW McPherson strut front and equal length, parallel rear (homemade) wishbones built by a former race car builder in 1996.

that must be where it came from - the BDR suspension! (just teasing)

dom, cape town

[Excaliber]

WHOA, I didn't mean use the Mag Staff, what the heck do they know about Cobras???

I was thinking about that kind of format for multiple drivers IF the decision is made to even use mulitiple drivers. A strong case can be made for using ONE driver after all.

Ernie