Cobra's Creator: Carroll Shelby Speaks Out

[mrmustang]

he following was sent to me by a fellow who would like to remain anonymous. We are all adults here, and can come to our own conclusions, please be civil if you must post a comment afterwards....

The following is a reprint of an interview conducted by the folks at Peterson's Publishing back in March of 1988:

Cobra's Creator: Carroll Shelby Speaks Out,
From Petersen's Kit Car Specialty Car Magazine, March 1988


KC: How do you view the Cobra, in the context of its time?
CS: To me, the beauty of it was that it was something put together by California hot rodders, a few good people at Ford that worked after six p. m. to get things done. People like Claus Horning, who designed
the chassis for the 427 Cobra. It wasn't a perfect car. I never said it was. The timing was lucky.
KC: Which leads to the next logical question. What do you think about firms that replicate Cobras?
CS: Nothing you can do about it. I don't think they ought to call 'em Cobras though, because Ford owns the name.
KC: Aren't you and Ford at a disagreement over names?
CS: I sold the Cobra name to Ford for a dollar many years ago, and I've never denied that. I built GT350s in 1982. There's never been a piece of paper saying ford bought it. That's why I'm suing Ford for $30 million. I'll let the federal judge in Dallas decide it all. I've got faith in the judicial system.
KC: Did the handful of people who helped develop the Cobra have a sense of something special happening during the project?
CS: No. We were just trying to do the best job at the time that we could. We honestly thought we could beat the Ferraris if we had enough money.
KC: Does the fact that the Cobra is probably the most popular replicar of all time surprise you?
CS: Yeah. There were some of these Cobras that didn't sell for a few years after we quit building 'em.
KC: Do you know where CSX-2000 is today?
CS: That's the number one Cobra. It's in Dallas. I got offered a million dollars for it. Funny thing about it is I offered that car to the Ford museum in 1974, and they said, "Nah, we don't want no Cobra." I offered it to 'em for nothing. I didn't want it laying around taking up space.
KC: Back to the replicar industry…
CS: I'm not jealous of the people that build these replicas. They're just people with dreams like I had.They're trying to make a living. I do get upset if they try to say they're Cobras. The reason I get upset is
that there's too much of too many people in making a Cobra. Everyone says, "Oh, all that fool [Shelby] did was take an AC chassis and drop a Ford in it, and it [the Cobra] just happened." It didn't. These people took a car from AC- that you couldn't drive around the block in-and turned it into something that, as unsophisticated as it was, caused Ferrari to give up GT racing. I'd been wanting to build a car since 1950. It wasn't something that just came all of a sudden. When I was driving race cars in Europe. I was mainly there to find out how to put a building operation together. That's the reason I stayed with Aston Martin. That's the reason I'd hang around Modena for three months
every summer. I was interested. That's the reason when we started to build the Daytona Coupe I went straight to Modena, because that's where the best panel-beaters were. Best panel-beaters are still there. You can go to Modena and build a good sports car probably today cheaper than anywhere in the world. But you gotta know where those back alley shops are. You gotta know where the people are.
KC: If you were emerging today, what would you build?
CS: I don't know. I do know that you can build a good car in this country for a lot less than the $275,000 Ferrari G-40. There's a lot of people out there that will pay that, that always dreamed of being race drivers
and never got to be. Now they've got a little money in their pockets, so that's the way to impress their girlfriends.
KC: Speaking of dreams, isn't the Cobra replicar market built on the guy growing up in the Sixties who saw the original as his dream car? A guy who knows that a replica is as close as he'll ever get?
CS: I don't mind if people do it [build replicas]. It's a compliment. People don't realize how much even copying something today costs versus how much it was when I did it [built Cobras]. I went to the cheapest source in the world. They banged those bodies out underneath a bridge. You start building
those bodies in England now, the chassis at prevailing wagers over here, finding the parts… it costs a lot of money.
KC: Some Cobra replica manufactures are back ordered six months.
CS: (Surprised) Are they? I tested some about four or five years ago, and only about one out of the six was anything. I don't remember the name of the company that made it.
KC: Do you attribute the popularity of the replicar market to a desire for our cars to be individually oriented, to show more of our personality?
CS: There's a little of Walter Mitty in a lot of people, and a replicar-the Cobra-represents the ultimate in performance. You can't pull one of these vehicles into a filling station without drawing a crowd. I think when one person sees that happening, they may not even know what a Cobra is, but they'll buy one because they can stick their chest out when they're driving.
KC: How did the Cobra body design come about?
CS: It just happened. We had to make it wider than the old…it looked a lot better than an AC Bristol did! I said, "Just make the nose longer. We gotta put wider tires on it. Put flares on the fenders." Tell you the truth, I don't remember where exactly the 427 body lines came from. Just kinda a 289 blown up a bit.
KC: You've been quoted as saying that you wished the Cobra experience were behind you.
CS: It seems I can't live it down. All I've said as far as I remember is that I would never build a car like the Cobra again probably because it was the most successful of the musclecars of the Sixties, but that was 20 years ago! There's so much more technology now! For instance, I have a lot more fun driving the CSX with a 16-valve engine today than I do driving a Cobra. We're past the Cobra days. A Cobra's like driving a
Model T Ford. Electronics are interesting to me now.
KC: How do you perceive Chrysler/Shelby's market profile?
CS: Of all the cars on the market in America today, there's probably not any company that outperforms Chrysler, and all we've got is that little four-cylinder engine. Coming along with the V6 in the Mitsubishi, we've still got some V8s, some dinosaurs. All the magazines yell, Another K-Car chassis. They gotta have something to write about, but the K-Car chassis is as fine a front-wheel-drive chassis as there is. For mass-produced cars. (Pause) I would have loved to have a 16-valve engine that I could emissionize for 265 horsepower and four-wheel drive. But I didn't have that and we had to make do with what we
had. I haven't built anything that I don't like to get on the street in. Our guys here can emissionize 260, 275 horse power with a little 2.2, 16-valve. (Conversation drifts to Ford's purchase of AC.)
KC: What was the motivation?
CS: Chrysler bought Lamborghini and have an option to buy whatever of Maserati they don't own now, and Ford feels like they might have gotten left at the switch. AC was a name they've been connected with, and it also kind of helps blow me out of the tub. A lot of people at Ford are still my friends, but there's a lot of 'em that are madder than hell that I get credit for the Cobra and GT40.
KC: Final thoughts?
CS: Just that I'd like more of the people who built the Cobra to get some credit.


Now that you have made it to the bottom, hope you enjoyed this eye opener as much as I did.

Yours in Fords,

Bill S.

PS: If you are going to post a comment on this, please be civil...............

[Cal Metal]

You have to admit the guy has a lot of charm and a unique way with words. The type of person you could listen to all day long.

His description of AC Cars "banging out those bodies under a bridge" had me laughing for twenty minutes. His description of people and events have a certain visual quality to them. Good for Carroll.

[Randy Klein]

Hi Bill,

Thanks for taking the time to key this story in. I found it facinating to read that Mr. Shelby wanted more credit for the unsung people who made the Cobra. A more complete story, like this, goes farther than an incomplete one and better sheds light on his deeper feelings. I suspect that this is one of many pieces of the overall CS puzzle. Once all these pieces are placed together, I hope to have a picture of the 'real' Carroll Shelby, one person that I admire for his contributions to one of my life's dreams, along with the rest of his team of creators.

So, thanks again for finding and publishing this. I hope to see more direct quotes coming.

Randy Klein

[This message has been edited by Randy Klein (edited 01-02-2001).]

[Art Colley]

Good job, MM.

Very revealing, and I must add, that is the story exactly as i remember it.

In case anyone misses my meaning, I have always considered the Cobra to be Shelby's creation, as close to single handed as it can be, and (perhaps because of the foregoing) I have always considered the Cobra to be a star that could glow competitively for a short time only. And I think Shelby knows it. it's part of what makes the whole thing so magical.

I think Shelby sincerely regrets not forseeing how great the Cobra phenominon would become. I think his strongest statement is his regret that some of the less known people who made the Cobra possible have not been given the credit due them. But who would have known?

Regards to all, Art in Baton Rouge.

[This message has been edited by Art Colley (edited 01-02-2001).]

[mrmustang]

Cal,

Having had the pleasure of sitting in on several of the dinners with CS at SAAC conventions, yes, I understand what you are saying.

Randy,

CS is a very complex man, I admire him for his fortitude and his stubborn will to get the job done, not matter what job that was in the past.....Will the automotive market have anyone like this again in the future, after the Delorean fiasco , probably not....

Yours in Fords,

Bill S.

Originally posted by Randy Klein:
Hi Bill,

Thanks for taking the time to key this story in. I found it facinating to read that Mr. Shelby wanted more credit for the unsung people who made the Cobra. A more complete story, like this, goes farther than an incomplete one and better sheds light on his deeper feelings. I suspect that this is one of many pieces of the overall CS puzzle. Once all these pieces are placed together, I hope to have a picture of the 'real' Carroll Shelby, one person that I admire for his contributions to one of my life's dreams, along with the rest of his team of creators.

So, thanks again for finding and publishing this. I hope to see more direct quotes coming.

Randy Klein

[This message has been edited by Randy Klein (edited 01-02-2001).]

[Flyin_Freddie]

Certainly intersting reading. But, this begs the question that if Shelby "...sold the name 'COBRA' to Ford for a dollar...", why he seems to be so interested in suing kit car manufactures, especially FFR? If he KNOWS and has ADMITTED selling the name, then where's the impetus to sue anyone? Insofar as the "trade dress" argument, he admitted that he "...took a car fom AC..." and so on. To my way of thinking, he's just admitted that 1) he sold the name Cobra, and 2) that AC made the original body shape! So, where's the reason to sue, Carroll? We know where's the reason, don't we, boys?

Look, the bottom line is easy: Without the kit car/replicar industry there wouldn't be near enough interest in Cobra-bodied cars to make a hill of beans. Indeed, these were fantastic cars for their time, and more fun than a bottle of Wesson oil in a topless joint! But, there were only about 550 original Cobra-bodied cars built - period! Hell, there were only 31 AC bodied 427 S/C ever built out of a total of less than 400...386, I believe. (I have the official count in a book at the house, "Illustrated Shelby Buyers Guide") He says, "...we're past the Cobra days...", but his actions bely his true attitude.

I'll wager if every kit car/replicar manufacturer agreed to pay ol' Shel a little 'gratuity' on every car they sold, say $500 or so, he'd drop his suit quicker than my dog drops his load every morning!

Sorry, guys, while indeed ol' Shel's comments and demeanor are engaging, and certainly he is the absolute - bar-none - EXPERT on all things Cobra as well as being able to turn-a-phrase with the best of 'em, I can't help but think he's talking out of both sides of his mouth. With apologies to anyone who visits ClubCobra who may be involved with the legal profession, the only ones who stand to make anything from ol' Shel's suit are the lawyers involved. ...and we all know what ol' Will said about all the laywers!

The only ones who stand to lose in this suit are the Defendants and US, as consumers. To sue a replica manufacturer is to sue everyone who owns a replica, whether they built it themselves or purchased it as a turn-key.

Personally, even though I respect Ol' Shel for what he did, he's not someone who I'd like to get to know a whole lot better. Sorta like training a Rottwieller - you'll never know when he'll turn on you and attack.

Okay, flame retardent suit on, helmet, boots, and gloves...Fire away...

[snakeeyes]

Bill,

Having typed in a few semi-long posts myself, all I can say is I hope you hired somebody to punch this one in! Man, you must have started on New Year's Eve. ;-)

Having been a SAAC member in the early '80's, a Cobra fan before that, and having devoured every Cobra-related magazine, book, and videotape I could find, I have read and heard many interviews of CS. He is really pretty consistent with his recollections of "the old days", and the credit he gives to various parties involved. The thing he has obviously altered his stance on is with regard to replicas. As a replica owner, I obviously don't like his position. As part owner of a business, I can understand his anger at others making a profit from something he thought of, worked deals on, brought to fruition, and turned into not only a success story but a racing legend. More to the point, I can understand his feelings when others make a profit and he receives no part of it. This, of course, is where the "closing the barn door after the horse is out" argument comes in. Understand I am not defending him, just saying I appreciate his position (empathy vs. sympathy, you know).

CS has been called plenty of names on this and other forums, but I can't help but appreciate him for his accomplishments on the track, which were impressive, and his contributions to my favorite hobby. I hate like hell that he is trying to hurt the Cobra kit industry, but at the same time if it weren't for his idea I wouldn't be typing this post, or driving my ERA, in the first place...

Bob

[Dan Semko]

Thanks for posting the interview.
When the replicar fiasco started, it seemed obvious that Shelby was responding to the selected information/stimuli that was being provided to him by the Venture minions. I still firmly believe that what we're reading and seeing currently remains the result of very careful prodding and instigation by the majority stock holders in SAI, which is not Carroll Shelby. The man has always been a straight shooter; it doesn't make logical sense that he would initiate a frivolous lawsuit that will surpass his time on earth. It would be interesting to listen to his perspective on the suit, not what his PR people have prepared him to say. When the smoke clears, Shelby will not be behind the gun.

DDS/The First Edition

[mrmustang]

Hey Bob,

I cannot take credit for typing this one out, it was sent to me in a word document. I did have to dig through my massive collection of old car magazines (lucky for me I had just finished doing an inventory of them for future sale on ebay )to find the issue with this interview in it (always want to be careful of what I am asked to print).....I am just the poster of this one.........


Yours in Fords,

Bill S.

Originally posted by snakeeyes:

Bill,

Having typed in a few semi-long posts myself, all I can say is I hope you hired somebody to punch this one in! Man, you must have started on New Year's Eve. ;-)

Bob

[This message has been edited by mrmustang and a band of very sticky fingers]

[This message has been edited by mrmustang (edited 01-02-2001).]

[snakeeyes]

Fact checking--what a concept!

Regardless, Bill, thanks for the post. I think it's a topic that deserves a fair discussion now and then. Besides, thumbing through a pile of old magazines can be mind-numbing when you're trying to find a particular article (or, if you're like me, you end up reading bits and pieces of every one, and find yourself two hours later with stacks of mags and a hacked-off wife)...

[mrmustang]

Funny you should mention stacks of magazines

<IMG SRC="http://www.clubcobra.com/uploads/magazines1.jpg" border=0>

And these only show some (notice the empty boxes in the back) of the Ford related magazines in my collection ....


Three week project to inventory, much longer to actually get it built in to a web page listing everything (still not quite there yet, but you'll get the picture):
http://bills2.freeservers.com/mags.html


Yours in Fords,

Bill S.

PS: So, I'm a pack rat, you got a problem with that .

Originally posted by snakeeyes:
Fact checking--what a concept!

Regardless, Bill, thanks for the post. I think it's a topic that deserves a fair discussion now and then. Besides, thumbing through a pile of old magazines can be mind-numbing when you're trying to find a particular article (or, if you're like me, you end up reading bits and pieces of every one, and find yourself two hours later with stacks of mags and a hacked-off wife)...

Edited for spelling



[This message has been edited by mrmustang (edited 01-02-2001).]

This is a great interview, and I thank you for posting it.

Those who continue to blast Mr. Shelby should step back and consider what he has done and continues to do in relation to the performance automobile industry.

As far as the current lawsuit with factory five goes, although not to my liking, is entirely understandable.

A simple sidenote remains, to shed light on the ethical arguements related to the case. Mr. Shelby offered to endorse various Kit Car manufacturers, before he began building the CSX 4000 cars, in exchange for a donation to his Children's Heart Foundation. With no responses, a little bad blood is understandable.

[Robert Evans]

While trying to write this post without taking any sides, I do remember one particular Cobra replica manufacturer telling me that they did in fact try to make reconcilliation with CS and his Heart Fund, but after receiving no reply from either CS or his lawyers, their offer was withdrawn.

I have no evidence whether this is true or not, but I am just relaying what was told to me and I have no reason not to believe it.

[Bud Man]

Second that, Tsaf and Snakeeyes (we Texans have to stick together

He has, despite some recent unpleasantness, continued to enrich the hobby we all profess to love.

God bless him and grant him a continued long life!

Bud

[Tom T.]

Replica manufacturers did not make "donation" = Mr. Shelby did not "endorse" their cars. Seems fair enough. Replica manufacturers did not make "donation" = Mr. Shelby makes CSX 4000 cars? Sure, why not, get in the game, go for it. Replica manufacturers did not make "donation" = Mr. Shelby & Co. sue over trade dress? Whoa.

Tom T.

[Flyin_Freddie]

To clarify my earlier post where I alluded to the current kit car Cobra industry being the real reason for Shelby's popularity... Granted, the originals are indeed desired and sought after collector vehicles - and indeed I'd love to own one or two - but, there were just so few of them made that it's hard to understand someone thinking there's a big after market industry in offering parts for them, etc. Anyway, here's some numbers from the Illustrated Shelby Buyer's Guide, Jay Lamm and Nick Nicaise, Motorbooks International, 1992.

Leaf Spring Cobras: 260's - 75, 289's - 574, Daytona Coupes - 6, TOTAL 655.

King Cobras: Shelby Factory Racers - 5, Privateer - 3, TOTAL 8

Coil-Spring Cobras: 427 Chassis only - 3, 427 type 65 Super Coupe - 1, 427 Street - 292, 427 Competition - 21, 427 S/C - 31, TOTAL 348

So, if you're adding all these up, that's a total of 1,011 Cobra-bodied cars. Figuring some of them are no longer with us due to shunts, wrecks, fire, etc. there's less than 1,000 lucky owners in the world today. Without the kit car/replica industry, where would be vast market for these cars be?

Interestingly enough, I have another book from AC Cars, Ltd, AC Heritage, 90 Years From Three Wheelers to Cobras. This publication states there were 31 427 SC's built by them. So, basically, this tells me - and anyone who can add and read - that Ol'Shel' didn't produce the first 427 SC style bodies, AC did.

So, what was the basis of this suit, anyway? True, Ol'Shel may not be at the root of this suit, as DDS#1 stated, but he DID have the power to stop it...all he had to so was say so, and indeed, his will be done.

Now, before everyone goes and jumps on my case, I do admire and revere Carroll Shelby. Not only for what he did for Ford Racing and for us racing fans, but for giving us a car worth making replicas of... Ever seen a replica - kit car or turn-key - of a '53 Nash Rambler Metropolitan? Ever wonder why...?
But, based on Shel's interview posted above, and other things he has said, as documented on ClubCobra, one wonders why the suit was ever filed.

Carroll, you can't be credible and talk out of both sides of your mouth. You can't say you're flattered by kit car replica's and then go sue the manufacturers. And you'll never have any credibility by signing someone's kit car Cobra dash and then suing the manufacturer of the same kit car! I love what you did, but I certainly don't like the man you've become.

(Editted for typos only...)


[This message has been edited by Flyin_Freddie (edited 01-03-2001).]

[Brad Pfeifer]

I would first assume that this interview has been verified as true, and not some other internet hoax.( MM, you said you had it in print, correct?)

A lot of "vitriol" has been spilled regarding the actions of Carroll Shelby. The interview was better than 12 years ago, and a man has the right to change his mind a number of times in that period. Carroll Shelby is a business man and a heart transplant recipient. He has a business and a cause. Don't mix the two up. If you want to build and sell cars because you think you have a good product, go for it. DeLorean certainly did, and when the money got tight things happened that maybe weren't above board. If you want to base your business sanctions on who contributes to your cause, that may not be above board, but the truth is the heart foundations need your money no matter how they get it. Passion is a intimidable force. The Cobra will be a long-lasting icon of American power, no matter who builds it.

It is time we got past this.

Brad

[mrmustang]

Hey Brad,

Yes, I do have the original March, 1988 Petersons Puplishing Kit car magazine with this article in it (have all of them dating back to 9/82). I cannot see where it could have been falsified.....Just sitting there in black and white. Anyone feel like coming over, I'll be more than happy to show it to them in person .................


Yours In Fords,

Bill S.

PS: Want to buy a massive collection of automotive magazines ....... NO shipping, you pick them up....

Originally posted by Brad Pfeifer:
I would first assume that this interview has been verified as true, and not some other internet hoax.( MM, you said you had it in print, correct?)

A lot of "vitriol" has been spilled regarding the actions of Carroll Shelby. The interview was better than 12 years ago, and a man has the right to change his mind a number of times in that period. Carroll Shelby is a business man and a heart transplant recipient. He has a business and a cause. Don't mix the two up. If you want to build and sell cars because you think you have a good product, go for it. DeLorean certainly did, and when the money got tight things happened that maybe weren't above board. If you want to base your business sanctions on who contributes to your cause, that may not be above board, but the truth is the heart foundations need your money no matter how they get it. Passion is a intimidable force. The Cobra will be a long-lasting icon of American power, no matter who builds it.

It is time we got past this.

Brad

[Dan Semko]

Freddie,
Search for information on "Venture" who currently owns the majority of Shelby American and how they gained economic dominance within the industry and you'll soon see it was not by being Mr. Nice Guy. The economic politics of Venture would negate any minority opinion or vote that Shelby would present at any board meeting. He can't stop them from doing anything at this point. They're very smart boys and have every t crossed and i dotted. Remember, "icons" are placed in secure, transparent places for everyone to see and watch....the good and the evil, hand in hand.

DDS/The First Edition

[Flyin_Freddie]

Thanks, DDS#1, I will look for info on "Venture". Indeed, they may very well be the root of all this evil, and not very nice people with whom to do business. But, I still can't help but believe that Ol' Shel' could have put an end to it before now if he really wanted to.

Anyway, Thanks loads to MrMustang for taking the time to post the interview. It's very entertaining, and even though 12 years old, it gives some insight to the man himself. Again, I do indeed hold up Carroll Shelby as one of America's hotrod icons, but I just don't think I like the man he's become.