Kirkham - Sign of Things to Come

[ToyCollector]

Lew,

There was a published write up in I believe the old Autoweek article on the Kirkhams where they had in fact been playing with making motors. That was many many years ago. I believe the article link can be found on their website. So, in essence, your statement is correct.

http://www.kirkhammotorsports.com/in...s_article3.cfm

[Jamo]

Richard

I sure as hell wasn't looking for an apology, nor do I think one was mandated...

This place can be the Tower of Babel at times.

[Allan A]

Babel, now we are talking about something I know, where are all of the 10 buyers for the KMP cars which apparently sold in hours.

[mrmustang]

Allen,

I know of at least five who had already posted to this forum in on thread or another that they had written out the check. I can assure you that the other 5 are waiting in the wings, but may or may not want to take it public.

Bill S.


PS: No, I am not one of those who spent the money...if i had it to spend, I can assure you again that I would have in a heartbeat. Would not have even had to ask my wife for permission .

Originally posted by Allan A


Babel, now we are talking about something I know, where are all of the 10 buyers for the KMP cars which apparently sold in hours.

[RaceDeck]

What ever Kirkham's strategy is for the long > It is working, everyone is talking about them and their cars. I am sure that whatever the final cost is fro a Kirkham, it will be of tremndous craftsmamship and qaulity> the kirkham way!

I also think that if they are selling more cars and producing more parts, their costs will come down > and it appears that they will be passing those costs on to the customer.

Just my $.02

[ToyCollector]

Allan, I 2nd mr.mustang's comments.

[Richard Hudgins]

Folks,

I wish that I could say that JBL could machine a engine block and bits in less than a 24 hour day.

Below is an example of a unit we did that took over 1500 CNC machine hours. (But, in our defense, we did 20 units, therefore 75 machine hours each.)

But, It won its class at LeMans in the Viper.



If we could get quicker on the machines, we may some day make a profit.


Maybe I should call David K. and see if they would be willing to act as consultants.


We could certainly use the help.


(Please note: we did not build the above engine. We just made the parts and designed drives etc. Caldwell Engineering is the designer and builder of the above engine. They get the credit because they did the design and build.)

[CSX 4039]

Originally posted by Richard Hudgins



Maybe I should call David K. and see if they would be willing to act as consultants.


We could certainly use the help.

Richard-

There is a book callled "Selling the Invisible", and another called "The 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing". I don't have the authors as I am out of the country for a couple weeks. Both are fascinating, helpful and a quick easy read. Basically, in the end the are 2 dominant companies (Coke and Pepsi) and then the also rans (RC Cola). It happens like this in most industries over time (remember Wang computers). One of these books, I odn't remember which, says that for the luxury leader to start selling on price discounts is a potentially fatal mistake, as is product line extension (Bud, Bud Light, Bud Ice, Bud Dry, Michelob, Michelob Light today sell not much more than just plain old Budweiser did years ago).
You would rarely hear of Rolls Royce, Mercedes, DeBeers diamonds, the Mansion on Turtle Creek, or any number of other folks who had staked out the luxury or quality high ground selling on a dramatically low price point. In fact, I heard that DeBeers used to buy all the diamond output of Russia and dump them in the ocean, to keep prices high. Otherwise, this article postulated, men would bring home a dozen diamonds for their wives, a la' a dozen roses.
You have the technology niche- amatuer racers who want to drive old Cobras as fast around corners as a new Ferrari. Cool concept. You can never be the number one or two Cobra manufacturer, that looks like it will shake out to SAI/CAV and Kirkham, with ERA being the RC Cola (unless CAV closes), but, you CAN be the number one builder of race cars that look like Cobras. A smaller market. true, but, according to these books, it is vital to be #1 ot #2 in SOMETHING for long term survival and profitability. I would hate to be Shell Valley, Mid States, SPF or any number of other builders right now. I hope they have good day jobs!
These are not my original thoughts, but paraphrased from these books by so-called 'experts'. Just my .02 cents. Go buy those books. They were a real eye opener for my businesses.

I have a lot of admiration for the small businessman, who developes new things and takes them to market. Go luck.

[427sharpe]

Perhaps we are using the wrong busines model in this discussion. Think WalMart instead. You move into a new area, offer substanstially lower prices until you drive the competition out, then begin moving your pricing up to regain lost margins. By doing this, you establish a reputation as a 'loss leader' marketer, when in the long run you offer no real value other than that established by your buying power. But! You still get the majority of the business and become a dominant marketer in your product area of expertise.
Now, I am NOT saying the K's car is a WalMart Cobra!
Just that the business model would make a lot of sense as the Cobra market contracts. Contrary to views expressed above, I do not see too many people picking a 40000 glass car over a 40000
Kirkham. In light of this, how will the glass makers at the upper end react? Do they have the resources to compete over the long term? What about the guys in the 'sea of mediocrity' (the middle marketers) ? This would apply to mfg's like EM, Shell Valley,etc.. that are caught between the lowest price and top quality shoppers. EM has already re-organized once.....can they make a desirable car that people WANT, or just another plastic replica that people bypass as too expensive while they go to F5 or too far from original as they go to ERA? And what of ERA? Will they be a continuing force as they have in the past, or become another make mentioned as one you looked at when you bought a Kirkham?
Either way, my hats off to the Kirkhams for have the cajones to get the company where it is, and for being dedicated enough to bring the level of this hobby to the point it is. They definitely have the buzz going in their favor!

[KobraKarl]

Brett,

Thanks for the book tip , i'll pick one of those up. As far as De Beers......They were absolutely S#itting their fine silk trousers, in the mid eighties after the Soviet Union started to disintegrate....The soviets were/are presumed to sitting on the worlds largest cache of diamonds ....and potentialy poised to shore up their new formed disaster of an economy with those reserves ...dont know what the "bargain" was, to keep that from happening ,but I would bet De Beers was deeply involved.

There is the "Zircon", want to guess which carat weight is "selling more....

Coke has "the name" but their product is probably cheaper today than it was 30 years ago.......and, they are probably out sold by the cumulative"brand X cola " every day.

Shelby certainly is the "diamond /Coke" of the industry , but you cant buy yourself a 1/4 carat Shelby because the 6 carat one is out of reach financially.....Kirkham and the other Zircon cobras will have a market for a while yet....

.I will concede that Kirkham is starting to achieve "diamond status " as a result of thier hard work and market strategy.......if they can maintain their pricing , or even go lower, they may well wipe out some of the weaker sisters.....

KK

[Jamo]

Hmmm....

Course, the "real world" examples used by by the "experts" as their cases in point certainly did not include a situation where Coke purchased semi-finished cola from Pepsi, added some flavoring and then sold it as "the Real Thing".

Funny thing about marketing studies, they NEVER foresee the next big thing...

[ToyCollector]

Jamo,

Too funny!

[Turk]

Maybe that is where the slogan UnCola came from....

TURK
That thing tastes just like Coke.
Kind a sorta like the Butter Flavored margarine....

[southernfriedcj]

All these cola anologies made me thirsty. Excuse me while I go to the fridge for a Sam's Choice cola.

[KobraKarl]

what I want to know is ...do REAL cobra owners only drink Real Coke in an aluminum can,..........or do they secretly drink Sams choice from plastic bottles out in the garage...

KK

[ToyCollector]

Karl,

SouthernFried is just plain cheap. He probably got his Sam's Choice off Ebay. The rest of us drink out of the aluminum can, but prefer the glass bottle for the same price if available, straight from the source of course. Now for replicas, well....

[Richard Hudgins]

Originally posted by Brett J. Bolte


Richard-

You have the technology niche- amatuer racers who want to drive old Cobras as fast around corners as a new Ferrari.

I have a lot of admiration for the small businessman, who developes new things and takes them to market. Go luck.

Brett,

I agree with your post and understand your points.

But I was speaking about machine times, not marketing of the Cars.

(I probably screwed up here again. It seems that I am very poor at communication of my thoughts.)

Rest assured, JBL is not going to play the numbers game nor pander to the overall market.

The JBL is a labor of love, or better described, an experiment in engineering and fabrication.

Each car as it is built has improvements and development that please the builders. (This means JBL Dave and Myself.)

We understand that it takes a very special buyer to want a JBL.

The buyer must have a desire for the most advanced bits and a almost insane desire for quality of fabrication and function.

Jbl most certainly leaves the major market to others such as ERA, SAI, and Kirkham.

I hope that everyone out there understands that the JBL is not for everyone.

It does not try to compete in the "Cobra" marketplace.

It only competes in the owners desires for the best of experiences in a "Vintage" competition type motorcar.

The Brits will undertand. IE, Marcos. Aero Morgan, TVR, etc. They understand these types of cars quite well. And play with them better than anyone.

Odd is it not, that this is where the whole Cobra thing started.

But look where it has gone.

The market is no longer true to it's roots of performance.

It is now a market of perception and dreams.

But, as any MBA will tell you. that is all that counts when it comes to moving units.

The JBL will never become a MBA's dream.

[southernfriedcj]

Karl, Mike, Sam's Choice only comes in can(12 oz) and plastic bottles(2 litre). Of course ToyHorder knew that cause he justs loves them Wally World superstores(he has the little yellow smiliey antenna ball in place of a shifter knob on his kirkham).

[KobraKarl]

Richard,

I watched an English GT race today on the "speed channel with just some of the cars you mentioned ...they looked somewhat "vintage " but were passing Porches.....Porshces...uuhhh Porcshes......those German cars like they were running on 3 cylinders..

KK

[Richard Hudgins]

Originally posted by KobraKarl


Richard,

I watched an English GT race today on the "speed channel with just some of the cars you mentioned ...they looked somewhat "vintage " but were passing Porches.....Porshces...uuhhh Porcshes......those German cars like they were running on 3 cylinders..

KK

KK,

That is the point.

That is what JBL is all about.