Did the Cobra exist before Carroll Shelby visited AC?

[Jamo]

AC had been sourcing out for motors in the Ace for several years...the Bristol and the Ford-powered Ruddthingy. As Ron points out (I can't find a head-on shot either), the Ruddspeed had lost the mustache seen in the pic on the previous page...uou'll recognize it immediately as the 260/289 Cobra street front clip. One of the Brit mags (Vintage, Classic???) just did a story of the pre-Cobra Aces.

But Shelby did the Cobra...call it marketing on a previous concept or whatever. And, as Tom pointed out, the development took off from there.

[Johan]

It just dawned on me that you guys are not country boys....
A muckraker is a chicken farmer. Muck is the stuff that barnyard animals make. Go to a chicken coop and you will see a ton of muck. When it piles up you rake it. CNN was calling Mr. Shelby a chicken farmer........which he was. No big deal.

Meat, I see you on the GT40 board causing trouble all the time.
Stop insulting our valued member REAL 1, as it will not be tolerated by us. Only we (his friends)can treat him that way.

[Jamo]

Assolutely, Johan!

Here's an AC Ruddspeed...Powered by Ford, as they say. Notice that the grill was already smaller than the mustache models that preceeded it.

My gawd, I beat Ron?

[casaleenie]

Originally posted by Johan


It just dawned on me that you guys are not country boys....
A muckraker is a chicken farmer. Muck is the stuff that barnyard animals make. Go to a chicken coop and you will see a ton of muck. When it piles up you rake it. CNN was calling Mr. Shelby a chicken farmer........which he was. No big deal.

Meat, I see you on the GT40 board causing trouble all the time.
Stop insulting our valued member REAL 1, as it will not be tolerated by us. Only we (his friends)can treat him that way.

UUUHHH, personally, I'm willing to tolerate it.

[Super-Snake]

mmmmmmm.....white castle

[Steve Cassani]

Russ,

This will likely tire everyone and bring this thread to an end, but...

The court was correct in its finding that Shelby's delay of three decades from the time he voluntarily went out of business to the date of filing before the court rendered his claim of harm moot. If Shelby was due remedy, why did he endure the harm during a period when all of the laws he cited in his favor were in effect?

Shelby went to considerable length to trace a visible connection between his work and the marketability of vehicles that borrow or repeat features he claimed to own. The court was not pursuaded that some share of the profit others were realizing was due Shelby. The disparity in time between the initiation of manufacture of similar products and the filing before the court led to the conclusion that Shelby waited to claim harm until the potential in profits foregone to him became too attractive to resist. The courts never agree to a claim of harm following considerations of cost-effectiveness.

Over a decade ago a comic book author and printer sued Warner Bros. for copying their original rendition of Casper the Ghost in the advertising for the Ghostbuster films. Their filing was timely, but the court found in favor of Warner Bros. The reason: There are only so many ways to render a ghost and have it recognized as such by the public. Ownership does not adhere to public property and what the author and printer contributed was nothing new and hence not their property. That's how ghosts look.

There is not only one way to shape a sports car and there, I believe, lay the basis of Shelby's claim.

[HIQ]

Evan, to answer your question - NO!

While the AC Ruddspeed may have been Ford powered it was Carrol Shelby and his staff who made it a Cobra.

[wilf leek]

I can't help but beat my nationalistic drum a tad here.

The "pre-cobra" AC Ace was NOT just some ailing little no-mark British sports car. In fact, in the very same 1959 Le Mans race where Shelby co-drove the winning Aston Martin with Salvadori, an Ace-Bristol won the 2 litre class. This was a hastily-prepared, 3 year-old, lady-owner road car. It was driven to the circuit, raced, winning it's class, then driven back to the UK, and returned to its lady owner.

In fact, AC Ace-Bristols won all sorts of championships "before Shelby" - 1957 SCCA class E championship, even the 1960 class D SCCA championship because the car was too successful in class E. Nota Bene - those are American championships!

1957 Sebring 12 hour.
1957 Monthlery Coupe de Salon. (2 liter class)

And distinction in others world-wide.

How do you think that Shelby, who was working the European race circuits at the same time, spotted it's success and started to think what it might do with a decent engine?

I want to detract absolutely nothing from Shelby's cobra creation, but when I see the AC cars dismissed as some kind of non-relevant failure I get a tad irritated. Let's accept the roots of the car for what they really were.

Also, as noted above, the nose cone had gestated ( in the Ace Ruddspeed 2.6) to that now well-known and loved from the early cobra days BEFORE the cobra was born.

Guys - throw me a bone here will ya? Shelby created the Cobra, but we Brits created the basis for it. It was this already race-proven car which, in conjunction with the Ford new sb engine, became the Cobra. And yes, I know the frame and other parts needed upgrading to cope with the torque and power of the new engine. Not surprising really.

Ok, nationalistic fervour over, normal service resumed.

[John McMahon]

Damn you Dan! Now I hafta go buy a sack of dem belly bombers!!!

I believe the trade name "Cobra" was used by Crosley. They had used CoBra, Copper Brazed, before Carrol Shelby

Ken...are you trying to tell me that the Cobra is REALly a replica of a Crosley????

Man...I am really confused now.

[Johan]

Who is Evan ?

[LURK]

I'll throw you a bone...

Do you have the name and number of the lady owner by any chance? Thought I might call her up and propose marriage if she could send a picture of the car...

-JT

[wilf leek]

Don't know the lady, but if I post a picture, can we at least get engaged?


PS - that is an english joke boys.

[casaleenie]

I think it's Miss Marpole.....

[wilf leek]

Marple

you are welcome

[LURK]

Is that her in the picture? Maybe SHE's the one who started all this Cobra ruckus.

Nice car by the way...

-JT

[casaleenie]

[quote]Originally posted by John McMahon


[b]Damn you Dan! Now I hafta go buy a sack of dem belly bombers!!!




John,

White Castle went out of business and everybody wondered why. They reinvented themselves and went back into business.
After tasting the burgers once again, nobody wondered why they went out of business the first time.
OH BOY, steam cooked hamburgers with onions that keep on giving and giving and giving... The Energizer Onion....

Put a bag of those on your leather seats... You'll have to sell the car...

[casaleenie]

Damn Wilf, I even went of Google to check the spelling just so I wouldn't have to get corrected by you...

I punch in Miss Marpole and it came up correct with Agatha's name on it...

If you can't trust Gorgle, who can you trust?

[casaleenie]

Okay, how about Margaret Rutherford????
I'm sure it's her...
"Throw me a frickin' bone here"

[wilf leek]

Al, as a well brought up Englishman, I refrained from the implied invective; "frickin", which in itself is an insult to a student of the Queen's English, being a b*stardisation of the actual word.

However, you are correct in stating the actual quote. Thank you.

Also, it is "Dame" Margaret Rutherford to you.

"Marple" stands. Gaargle is wrong.

I am still waiting to hear if "Lurk" is to send me a ring or not.

[LURK]

Originally posted by wilf leek


Gaargle is wrong.

But they ARE having a US$4 Billion public offering. Amazing.

By the way... had a Brit on the payroll for awhile- kept telling him to "speak frickin' English" so I could understand the "owd bean."

-JT