Report from Barrett-Jackson Auction

[southernfriedcj]

Thanks for the info Big Ern.

[Dan Semko]

Hey Evan,
You misread my post. If you check the BJ auction results, they post the "total" amount paid "for" the vehicle, so if you subtract the 8% commission, you'll find the true bid price.

[KobraKarl]

Turk, Evan,

I was only referring to the csx 4000 car, They did point out it was a "continuation" car and then appeared to stumble around a bit trying to say it was a shelby, ...well it wasnt a real one ... it was a real one not an original one it was assembled from old frames and bodies stored away.. it was put together ......etc ...really it was more the tone of the booth conversation...

..They didnt lump it in with the "replicas " with any thing they said ..its that they used that same 'whatever" lack of enthusiasm that they also clearly reserved for all the replicas ..It certainly wasnt the "Awe"that they surrounded Shelby cobras with last year ...

Maybe I'm just too sensative....

[Jim Maxwell]

Here is a brief explanation of the basic manual types of steering. The worm and sector cars are felt by some to have less road feel than the more modern rack and pinion cars. The first 125 Cobras were worm and sector, 75 of those being 260 c.i. engine cars. You can easily tell a "worm" car by the "flat" steering wheel--an instant give-away. The cars should also not have side vents, although many have had vents added over the years. There are also rack and pinion cars with no side vents, however (first 160 cars), so don't use that to determine the steering.
Manual Rack and Pinion Steering
A typical rack and pinion steering gear assembly consists of a pinion shaft and bearing assembly, rack gear, gear housing, two tie rod assemblies, an adjuster assembly, dust boots and boot clamps, and grommet mountings and bolts. When the steering wheel is turned, this manual movement is relayed to the steering shaft and shaft joint, and then to the pinion shaft. Since the pinion teeth mesh with the teeth on the rack gear, the rotary motion is changed to transverse movement of the rack gear. The tie rods and tie rod ends then transmit this movement to the steering knuckles and wheels.


Manual Recirculating Ball Steering
With the manual recirculating ball steering gear, turning forces are transmitted through ball bearings from a "worm gear" on the steering shaft to a sector gear on the pitman arm shaft. A ball nut assembly is filled with ball bearings, which "roll" along grooves between the worm teeth and grooves inside the ball nut. When the steering wheel is turned, the worm gear on the end of the steering shaft rotates, and movement of the recirculating balls causes the ball nut to move up and down along the worm. Movement of the ball nut is carried to the sector gear by teeth on the side of the ball nut. The sector gear then moves with the ball nut to rotate the pitman arm shaft and activate the steering linkage. The balls recirculate from one end of the ball nut to the other through ball return guides.


Manual Worm and Sector Steering
The manual worm and sector steering gear assembly uses a steering shaft with a three-turn worm gear supported and straddled by ball bearing assemblies. The worm meshes with a 14-tooth sector attached to the top end of the pitman arm shaft. In operation, a turn of the steering wheel causes the worm gear to rotate the sector and the pitman arm shaft. This movement is transmitted to the pitman arm and throughout the steering train to the wheel spindles.

[John McMahon]

Evan,

If I heard correctly on Speed, both the seller AND the buyer EACH pay B-J 8%.

Figure on the GT350SR alone, B-J pulled in a $22,400 commision.

THAT is why Craig Jackson was high fiving everyone on the high dollar cars.

[RaceDeck]

I am just back from BJ and spend a good amount of time around all of the "original" Shelbys, the Continuations and other replicas...Here is what I observed from that others were saying about the cars as they looked them over....All of the originals ( Pre 4000 series) ..all were positive and showed great interest in the car....on the 4000's- Once they saw the number there were comments like " Oh those are made in So Africa", "those are the fiberglass ones" , "Kirkham builds them for Shelby", and " Those are the ones that he had frames in Mexico"......In other words, if was not built in the 60's.... the majority felt it was a replica...that Shelby has signed on.....Just what I heard

I do not think that any 4000 series will every bring the money that a pre 4000 will bring...ever. Why? I would be interested to see what a top of the line Kirkham and a Top of the line 4000 would bring on the auction block? I think they would be within 20K of each other ..Today! who know what tommorrow will bring?

[LURK]

There was a pretty good discrepancy between 4000 series Shelby and non-Shelby Cobras- in some cases $100K.

I put up a page with auction results for dudes like me who didn't have Speed channel over at:

Barret Jackson 2004 Cobra Auction Results

-JT

[RaceDeck]

I agree...but there is even a larger margin between a pre-4000 and a continuation... Sometimes as much as 300-400k.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to own a pre 4000 series. I think the 4000 plus series is a great car, but I feel the value with the Kirkham is better for what I want out of a hand built metal car.

A funny thing though: there were a bunch of street rods there that are "not original" that brought well over 100k....with no mention of "replica"... I believe that this is due to the level of craftsmanship involved,,,,...Kind of like what we are seeing in the top of the Cobra / GT40 replica industry....

[LURK]

Originally posted by RaceDeck


I agree...but there is even a larger margin between a pre-4000 and a continuation... Sometimes as much as 300-400k.

Yeah- well... that pretty much goes without saying

Nothing like a REAL original! (or is that an orginal real one?)

-JT

[Cal Metal]

16% commission and people think stockbrokers are the only ones in the rip off business? I would be high fiving everyone, too.

Interestingly, I received a call the other day from someone who owns a late CSX 2000 (2400+). Undistinguished history although he was trying to put a good "spin" on the car's provenance. He had inquired about putting it up on the block at BJ. He said they were begging him to come out, as they are very short on original cars making it to their event (read Evan) CSX 2000-3000) They kept telling him how much they could get for the car but were really trying to discourage him from putting any reserve on the car. The penalty for that was 15% on his end, alone.

They kept promising him that they could get X for the car and that he didn't need the reserve. Nice way to operate--absolute no lose situation. If the car doesn't measure up, the auction house still gets paid, and a win/win situation for them if reserve IS met. He finally terminated the discussion. He said they had been calling him day and night. Interesting................

This is beginning to look like 1990 all over again. Look to the sky my friends, as no bull market--believe me--lasts forever. It is fun to watch, I will have to admit.

[Excaliber]

Yeah, I could see that, or at least it's interesting to contemplate.

Identical cars, one Kirkham and one Shelby (Kirkham body). $20K difference in price? Gotta be the name!!!

Car prices are a LOT like playing the Stock Market! Sometimes you win big, sometimes you loose your shirt.

Ernie

[JWheaton]

Cal,

I think that your phone call points out something interesting about the auction.

If this is the end of a bull run than why didn't some originals show up to get in on the last game?

[Cal Metal]

JWheaton:

I suspect that their interest in having original cars on the block is that they would pull the continuation Shelbys up in price. These auction houses aren't stupid. They know what a lot of this stuff is going for on an "off auction" basis. To wit, one of the original FIA roadsters was sold privately a few months ago. This car had a Mile's provenance but it needs everything---stem to stern. More putty in the hood than metal--so I am told. It changed hands at $800,000+.

My point is that one unique original car like that could pull the CSX 4000 cars ahead by $20-$30K. If you can leverage off the original car's price, that just makes the auctioneer that much more $$$$ on the other replicas up for sale.

If I were the auction house, I would bring in a original car, set a big reserve, and "captive" bid it with my own people doing the bidding just to give that particular marque the hype that it needs. Whose to say that isn't already going on at some of these auctions?

[REAL 1]

Racedeck: I can't comment on "what you heard" around the Cobras at B-J since I wasn't there. No doubt there are some who will not have the same enthusiasm for the Continuation Series as the original series especially when they are all there in one place so to speak. Understandable. One is limited in number and rare the other currently being manufactured and fairly affordable.

But in the end the enthusiasm for the Continuation series proved itself as to desireability with regard to those in the market for a Cobra who were there with sales from $105K for a glass CSX to $145K for an aluminum bodied Continuation Cobra. If all they wanted was a car that just looked like a Cobra without Shelby provenance, cars like the Contemporary were available at $23K. The ability to buy a "genuine" Shelby Cobra from Carroll Shelby/SAI and have a Cobra that is exactly "as it was" with the exact same feel, presence, performance and thrill of driving the legendary car itself ie... a "Shleby Cobra" and having a car with "Shelby" history still has a tremendous appeal to many that others can't match save for an original.

While others may say "why spend the money for a Shelby when I can have a SPF for half the price", my feeling is, as is many others, I don't want a car that looks like a Shelby Cobra I want a Shelby Cobra so why pay $350K for an original when I can drive a new Shelby Cobra and have the exact same car as the original series but brand new for a 1/3 of the price and I can drive it and enjoy it.

It all depends on how you look at it.

The originals are still "King" though.

Cal: I agree. Good point. If there were some originals on the block the Continuation series would have benefited. Look at last year.

John: Yeah. I agree. If I was making what Greg Jackson was making on some of those ridiculous sale prices like on that $400K hot rod I'd be jumping up and down and high five'n everyone too.

[Allan A]

RaceDeck,

I like your idea, David at Kirkham always seems up to a little competition. How about next BJ he puts in one of his cars. I think it would be very interesting.

[Excaliber]

any car that sold for $400K was commision free. A car going for THAT much is obviously worth it to BJ just to show up!

Ernie

[clayfoushee]

Ex,

Just curious, where did you get that understanding? Obviously, one has significant negotiating leverage with the B-J folks if one has a car that might conceivably command $400K. But, I still think I'd be "high fiving" a 4% commission on a $400K car more than for 8% on a $100K car, on simply an economic basis. The prestige factor is worth even more.

[BO DUTCH]

The commission schedule was posted on the TV.

$400K + ( No commission)

[brentfenimore]

Hello All,

I was not able to attend the Barrett Jackson event this year for the first time in four or five years but kept fairly close track of what was going on by TV and cell phone. It was a very successful show as a whole and had fantastic attendance figures.

One thing to keep in mind is that at the end of the day that these auctions are events and hipe is a big part of what brings top dollar. That is why the values of specific models vary from year to year (25th Anniv, 40th Anniv, 50th Anniv, etc.).

Shelby and SAI have been very successful in the auction arena for several years and for several reasons but I have to say that showmanship, exclusivity and resale value have been some of the major contributors to that success.

A few major examples of Cobras sold at events in the last few years:

Number 1 of 40, 40th Anniversary Ltd Edition, aluminum bodied 427 Cobra- 2002 Kruse Event in Las Vegas price $210,000.00

Number 2 of 40, 40th Anniversary Ltd Edition, aluminum bodied 427 Cobra- 2002 Kruse Event in Auburn price $135,000.00

Number 2 of 40, 40th Anniversary Ltd Edition resold at the 2003 RS Event in Scottsdale $175,000.00

Number 1 of 10 CSX4000R Composite Bodied 427 Cobra Racer- 2003 Atlantic City Event price $198,000.00

Over the course of the past 7 years we have sold CSX3000 cars for $410,000.00 and $385,000.00 at auctions. Standard CSX4000 glass cars have sold for $95,000.00 to $135,000.00 and standard aluminum cars from $105,000.00 to $155,000.00.

The market at these events is made in the months prior to the event, the support of the auction house is crucial and of course anniversary or limited editions draw high dollar if promoted properly.

One specific instance of a car that brought high dollar through hipe was a CS Special Edition Series 1- 2001 Barrett Jackson Event Scottsdale price $250,000.00. This was a beautiful car with options that were only offered on one car out of a run of 249, the average retail sales price of the other 248 Series 1 cars that were produced including options was $117,000.00.

The bottom line to many of these sales are I want it and I have enough $ to out bid you for it. Take a look at the '56 Vette that sold for over $100K, it was a Cincinatti fan not a car collector making an investment.

I have to say it is fun to attend these events and it does not hurt any of our egos to see Cobras go for big $, even though most of us can only afford to drive our replicas no matter what brand they may be.

R Brent Fenimore

[clayfoushee]

Thanks Bo.....missed that. That'll be a big incentive for me the next time I have a $400K plus auto for sale...LOL.