Breaking Cobra News - Page 6

REAL 1 · #**101** (**permalink**) 02-09-2004, 10:49 AM

Ernie: I hear you. My own personal thoughts are that the original CSX 4000 aluminum cars will have "unique" value in Shelby history one day being the first reincarnation by SAI of the "beast" in 40 years in true to exact specs and body material. Another Shelby first.

Did I just say "original CSX 4000"!

Rick: Thanks for the info. If the cars are going to be produced in Malta why is SAI and Lubinsky saying Frimley????

What a tangled ball of string.

What is going on now in the English courts. Is Jim Price standing by while Lubinsky supposedly is acting in violation of Prices license rights????

What a mess.

Brent: I note there is no comment or further info from you on this subject and the above posts. Only mention is of the runner kit.

Mark IV · #**102** (**permalink**) 02-09-2004, 10:57 AM

the "plan" is alloy cars come from Frimley and the "composite" cars come from Malta. The Malta development authority has alledgedly offered incentive for AC to locate a factory there. They plan to build the Mamba, the CRS and a new replica of the early 50's "moustache" Ace. Said Ace is on the AC website where they are taking deposits should you want to buy one.

Rick

REAL 1 · #**103** (**permalink**) 02-09-2004, 11:14 AM

Rick: Thanks. At least that part is now cleared up.

What about the rest of it????

Excaliber · #**104** (**permalink**) 02-09-2004, 12:18 PM

Oh sure, everythings as clear as a bell now!

Ernie

snakeeyes · #**105** (**permalink**) 02-09-2004, 02:08 PM

God save anyone trying to write the "Complete History of the AC/Shelby Cobra" twenty-five years from now

CSX 4027 · #**106** (**permalink**) 02-09-2004, 02:48 PM

If the aluminum comes from Brimley and the composits come from Malta then why are the CAV cars even being entertained from South Africa when there are apparent delays?
I guess the sequal to "The Cobra Ferrari Wars" will have to be titled "The Cobra Cobra Wars" or "The Shelby Civil War".
The only problem with the latter is that there isn't anything civil about it.

brentfenimore · #**107** (**permalink**) 02-10-2004, 12:27 AM

All,

Several months back a discussion on the ownership of AC and it's assets fell upon these same lines. At that time I stated thet I will let the facts fall as they may and unfortunately due to the twists of this post I must state the same once again.

I refuse to throw additional fuel to the fire and feel that we are missing a big piece of the puzzle in that Mr. Price has not and will not state the condition of his UK company, their legal stance or plans to take action if they have one.

R Brent Fenimore

REAL 1 · #**108** (**permalink**) 02-10-2004, 07:32 AM

Brent: That sounds alot like "Damn the torpedos, full speed ahead"

Trevor Legate · #**109** (**permalink**) 02-11-2004, 04:14 PM

Now that I am officially logged into this site, I guess I can offer a few comments regarding some of the Price/Lubinsky deal. I was fortunate that Jimmy Price rang me when he was in the UK last year to close the AC Autokraft factory in Frimley. I guess I can reveal most, if not all, of the conversation but whether Jimmy will be taking further action is unclear at the moment. Or I am unaware of it....

Jimmy Price did not approach AC Cars for a deal. He had a visit from AC to suggest that he take over the running of the Frimley factory to build AC 427s, 289s and FIA aluminium-bodied cars under license. Since AC owed him a sum of money, (for the pile of unused AC Ace chassis he still has in his factory) he would not pay AC Motor Holdings any royalties until the debt was cleared. He shook hands on the deal with Mr.Lubinsky and John Owen was put in charge of the new AC Autokraft business. His only instruction was that Jimmy Price did not necessarily need to see a profit - just as long as he did not make a loss!

The only down-side of the deal became apparent - Alan Lubinsky always avoided signing the official documents that would cement the deal.

Less than two years later, Mr.Lubinsky phoned Jimmy to tell him of his deal with Carroll Shelby International. Jimmy realised that he had a factory full of cars but no rights to use the AC badge any more. What could he call the cars? He had no option but to fly to the UK and give the staff letters of redundancy and close the factory. The same factory that Mr.Lubinsky still had claim to continue as a base for building his new Shelby AC Cobras. Jimmy Price was out by a large six-figure sum.

I know what I think......

REAL 1 · #**110** (**permalink**) 02-11-2004, 04:51 PM

Trevor: Interesting info.

If you are correct then one may conclude that Price will just walk away and not litigate the issue having nothing in writing.

This may answer why AC/Autokraft will be able to supply bodies and chasis to Shelby.

Price is known for his tenacity and fighting where he feels wronged. He proved that once.

But who knows.

Very interesting.

Dan Semko · #**111** (**permalink**) 02-11-2004, 05:58 PM

Evan,
When a suit is filed in the UK, the loser is required to pay the "entire" legal cost of the suit including both attorneys fees.
If Lubinsky is financially insolvent and Price wins a case against him, how does anyone collect? This is a Catch 22 situation.

REAL 1 · #**112** (**permalink**) 02-11-2004, 06:27 PM

Money damages is only one form of relief that can be sought. I was thinking more in the line of injunctive relief prohibiting Lubinsky from producing MkIII and MkIV bodies and chasis in violation of his "licensing rights". I would have thought Price would not want to give those rights up as they could be an asset for him and his SPF empire and keep CS from completing the "circle" so to speak.

On the other hand Price may be thinking that if Lubinsky can start to generate money from operating the plant there is now a source through which his debts could be repaid assuming Lubinsky hasn't transferred the tooling assets and logo and name rights to a new corporate shell.

Maybe Price just doesn't care anymore or maybe he never got the "rights" in writing and feels he would lose in court. Who knows.

All I know is that right now if I were buying one of the AC/Autokraft Shelbys I wouldn't advance any money until the car was on the ground here and I got the certificate of origin in exchange for the $$.

Still confused.

Mark IV · #**113** (**permalink**) 02-11-2004, 06:37 PM

..Pleased to see you here. Yes, I agree....Lubinsky has played the game and taken others for a ride (can you tell I have issues with him based upon my postings?)

Mr. Price who tried to do the "right" thing and acted upon the concept that honor is a virtue, gets hung with the mantle of having shut AC down...

I have known John Owen since 1999 when I met him at AC...I must admit, I had issues with him, but these turned out to be Lubinsky's attempts to control everything. I understand that John came close to personal bankruptcy whilst running the remains of AC.

It is gonna get uglier before it gets better...

Rick

Dan Semko · #**114** (**permalink**) 02-11-2004, 06:44 PM

Evan,
As a wise man recently stated "the fox may just be waiting for his meal to return".
Jim Price is an exceptionally bright "gentleman" but not a fool. Under estimating Price as a competent,well versed opponent, may prove an enlightening experience to those zealots.

CSX 4027 · #**115** (**permalink**) 02-11-2004, 07:15 PM

So are we saying thru all this that...

The "Price" will be right on the new 427 "SuperLubinsky"?

Excaliber · #**116** (**permalink**) 02-11-2004, 10:19 PM

Trevor, I hope you decide to post more in the future. VERY interesting and informative stuff. You da bomb!

Ernie

Tom Kirkham · #**117** (**permalink**) 02-11-2004, 11:28 PM

Tevor,

Glade to see you made it over here. When is your new book comming out?

In talking with Fritz Phillips he told me that one of his customers has a Corvace. This is I believe an Ace with a Corvette engine. Do you know anything about it?

Tell the crew hello for me,

Tom

nikbj68 · #**118** (**permalink**) 02-12-2004, 12:20 AM

Wow...THE Tervor Legate.Excellent! I look forward to seeing more posts from you, it`s really nice to have such a respected source of information. Welcome.

Trevor Legate · #**119** (**permalink**) 02-12-2004, 04:11 AM

Many thanks to everyone for the kind welcome and comments. Been reading your stuff for some months and I hope I can help in my own small way - I thought it was time I chipped in anyhow!

Hi Tom. Regards to you and your family and all at Klub Kirkham. Re my next book - ah the joys of self-publishing! Yes it is now complete-ish. Design and layouts start next month and if I can dig up a co-publisher (to guarantee some up-front income) we can push the button. It might be quite a big book. Quite glad it got delayed, so I can add include the latest twists to the on-going saga - will it never end? The reason for the delay was due to receiving a commission to write a book about the Corvette. Yes, I know, but I was young, I needed the money.......etc. At least I now know WHY I never liked them! It was a case of learning while I wrote.

Back to the topic......When I spoke to Jimmy he was undecided about which way to jump regarding taking legal action. His lawyers had advised him that he had a very strong case. Under British law, a handshake still constitutes a binding agreement - plus he ran the damn business for two years. It would be correct to assume that its a waste of time winning a case against someone who has the proverbial "empty bank account". We shall see......I think Jimmy is just fed up with fighting court cases. I know that he spent a LOT of money deterring the advances of an American gentleman, so I can sympathise with his predicament (if you'll pardon the expression)

I should also mention that John Owen was in hospital having suffered a heart attack whilst all this was going on. Glad to say that he has recovered and is back in the saddle at the newly re-opened Frimley factory!

I should like to mention that all the guys at Frimley are nice people and believe in the product which made the enforced closure all the more distressing. They are true Cobra enthusiasts and did not want to see the end of either the Cobra or AC. I can only hope they will be allowed to continue in the right direction without too much interference. They always made me welcome when I dropped in for a cuppa.

Off-topic again. Re the Corvace, Tom - not sure if I know the car you are referring to but there will be a chapter in my book about an Ace /Corvette that resides in the UK (purchased from the USA) that had its bodywork modified at Thames Ditton in 1957 and was the only Ace delivered to the USA without an engine. Its owner dropped in a Vette V8 and raced it in SCCA events. The thing is that the rear section is identical to the 289 Cobra and the front is very similar but had to make allowances for the stubby AC Bristol nose. So when the Ace had to be modified in 1962 - no problem, they had already done it! Very interesting car.

Quite a few Aces and even Aceca coupes have been similarly molested over the years, as a trawl through the used car ads in the motoring press of the 70s will reveal.

REAL 1 · #**120** (**permalink**) 02-12-2004, 06:30 AM

Trevor: Thanks for the info.

Welcome to the Club. Your knowledge and insight will a great asset here.

I didn't realize you were THAT Trevor Legate. I have used your book as reference tools here in many of my "battles" with others here. Great book.

Welcome!

I can understand why Mr. Price may just walk away. Tough call. If he ran the factory for two years than he would have proof of the agreement by virtue of his conduct and past investment. Aside from damages injunctive relief is available in England I'm sure in addition to being able to settle who has the "rights". I'm sure JP is aware of this. This Lubinsky character sounds rather unsavory and it appears JP is getting the short end of the stick.

Keep us posted.