Britain's "remarkable automotive cottage industry"

[wilf leek]

The interesting point here is that the "offending" article came from "The Independant" - a UK newspaper rated as if not the, certainly one of the, least car-oriented ones around!

Allow me to put it this way - if I want to read anything even vaguely car-related, The Independant would be my next to last choice (just before the Green Party's in-house magazine).

Therefore, anything they carry on the topic of cars should automatically be excluded from discussion by the august ranks of members here, who should know better.

Lurk, you are a stirrer.

However, on the grounds that this thread attracted people for whom words of more than two syllables are not just a mysterious concept, I forgive you.

Rick - with you on the Lucas thing.

[rdorman]

Wilf, I used to have a 'Lucas' T-shirt. It said "Lucas electrical system" and had a picture of a light switch on it. But instead of the switch being marked with 'on' and 'off', this switch was marked with 'dim' and 'flicker'

Although I must say all the lucas lights and stuff on my car seem to work just fine. Perhaps it was more their wire harnesses.

Rick

[What'saCobra?]

Dim and Flicker sound like two characters from another california dolphin movie.

But, very funny about lucas two pole switches and not just a little accurate.

It is hard to believe that their other division, Aviation Products used to be nearly a world standard in quality avionic electrical systems. You would think they might meet at a pub at least once and swap stories and cultural mores.

Then, I further suppose, British aircraft would start leaking hydraulics and ONLY flying backwards, rather than only on demand.

And, another welcome to Trevor. We are indeed lucky. I had never heard the story about Rudd's Chevy V-8 demo to Hurlock causing such angst. Now I understand why he was such a pissor...thanks for that.

[REAL 1]

Sorry Rdorman: I will agree that the Cobra was Shelby's idea and Lucas is the Prince of electrical darkness.

I have a very hard time agreeing that the success of the Cobra was a colaborative effort with AC. AC shipped the bodies and chasis. There contribution to the success of the Cobra pretty much stops there with some minor exceptions espeically as it pertains to the FIA Cobras, Daytonas and the 427.

In my opinion AC is given too much credit by some in the Cobra storey. Some credit they get for having the basic Ace platform. But it end pretty much there.

[LURK]

So let me make sure I understand you: you're saying that without the AC {platform} there would have been no Cobra?

::::ducking::::


-JT

[REAL 1]

What I'm saying is this.

AC fortuitously happened to have the Ace which Shelby through his vision and effort molded and developed into one of the great Automotive icons in two versions, 289 and 427.

Hell without Shelby there would be no Daytona, no GT350R, no GT40 winning LeManns either.

[StephenC]

Evan:

You forgot chili. Without CS there would be no chili. Or, that beautiful automotive masterpiece that will inspire future generations of replica builders, the mid '80s Shelby Dodge Charger. I still hope someday I can own a REAL1 of those.

LMAO

[REAL 1]

Don't you make fun of his Chilli!
Besides AC doesn't have any Chilli do they? No, I didn't think so.


P.S. Aside from the Charger didn't Shelby have a hand in the Viper too?

[MysteryTrain]

Damn, you guys crack me up.

Welcome, Trevor. This site desperately needs more Brits. Wilf can't possibly correct the english and increase the vocabulary of all 8000 CC members by himself.

Besides, I'm one American very tired of hearing my fellow patriots crow about WWII. Given England's relatively small population, land mass and lack of natural resources, I have nothing but respect and admiration for their ability to fend off armies from countries far more advantaged than they. God Save the Queen.

MT

P.S. Den, don't let these guys scare you. CC is nothing if not passionate. It is really a fun place when you get the hang of it.

[StephenC]

Evan:

A little known story.......

The basis for chili, as we know it today, comes to us from the English Lord, Sir Albert Chili (or AC to his close lordy friends).

CS was looking for a recipe that could be used in the International Chili Cookoff, as an Italian, Inzo da Endzone, had been winning all of the recent European competitions.

CS "borrowed" AC's basic chili recipe (tomaaaatos & chilies) and added meat and high-powered spices. This became the Shelby chili that started the ball rolling. This mix first sold for $2.89 and became known as the 289 version. Later, he came up with a more potent version that included beans and even hotter spices. It sold for (you guessed it) $4.27. It is the 427 version that has inspired generations of replica chili cooks around the world. Although, the Brits still prefer the 289 version due to their curved roads (?).

BTW: After his mother and sister told him they liked CS's chili best, Inzo dropped out of the international chili scene changed the spelling of his name, and began making red cars.

[wilf leek]

Steve C - ROFLMAO.

[Excaliber]

Steve,,,,, what a chilli concoction THAT story is! Gotta love it.

TREVOR.....whoa! What a post!!! Excellent!!!

Indeed it does seem to confirm Ron's opinion that AC would have survived with or without C.S. How fortuitous indeed that Shelbys timing was near perfect for both camps.

To this day I'm fascinated with HOW the Brits held on during WW2 when countries were falling like dominoes all around them. A stunning victory! Well done chaps!

Ernie

[What'saCobra?]

No winning GT40 without CS?

Oh my, I hope this is not going to get naughty.

I am going to try and keep my powder dry and let someone else get on this bull and AlGore it.

But, surely Lola ( Eric Broadley), FORD ( Henry II, Roy Lunn, Donald Frey, Ray Geddes), Holman & Moodey, John Mecom, John Wyer, Ken, Dan, AJ, Bruce and many others must have just "assisted" CS in his personal GT40 quest of winning Le Mans? For FORD? F-O-R-D?

I mean, in addition to the pretty fair but not championship winning Chilli, the heart fund, the "discovered" 25-year-old left-over AC CSX 427(McClusky) chassis watered down to rust just right, the California Consumer Protection Agency investigation, the Series 1 build-out and quality issues, many thousands of dead chickens, the real unsold 427"SC's" at the end of 1967 which were finished in 1968 & 69 and sold as 67's...

And now the GT40's?

Gentlemen, start your engines!

[wilf leek]

Can't - electrics went out on me.

[REAL 1]

Well we can talk all night about who CS may or may not have involved in his GT 40 efforts.

The fact remains Ford gave the project to Shelby no one else.

End of storey.

[kitcarman]

“P.S. Den, don't let these guys scare you. CC is nothing if not passionate. It is really a fun place when you get the hang of it.”

Thanks for the encouragement! I think it’s a bit like driving on the other side of the road. Daunting at first, but not too bad after you get used to it.

[RallySnake]

Stephen,

The chili history story was VERY informative. Thank you SO much.

Lurk,

This thread started with a question about where the kit car industry started. I was in the U.S. Air Force stationed in England most of the 70's and remember seeing many home built kit vehicles on the road. There was a big tax advantage to building your own car and the Lotus 7 was a big seller. Three wheelers were taxed as motorcycles and there were lots of those, too. When I returned to the States in '77, kit cars were a very rare sight. I remember the first one I saw was the Stallion Cobra replica in 1978. I know Steve Arntz got the ball rolling in the US during the 70's but the cars were not nearly as popular here as they were in "Jolly Olde".

If we had to pay the exorbitant road tax, VAT and gas prices that the British do, more people here might build their own cars, too. NEVER give up your right to bear arms.

Paul

[LURK]

Paul,

Thanks for the history! Like I said.. there's always more to learn. Although I do recall in my misspent youth looking at kit car/hot rod mags in the mid 70's. Or maybe it was Playboy... can't remember...

I stand by my stated aim 'though, as I revealed a few posts later: to tweak a certain right hand driver who shall remain nameless. Certainly wasn't going to let facts get in my way Needless to say I am happy with my results...

And Steve C., REAL chili doesn't have beans!

-JT

[Mark IV]

..was NEVER into chili.....they sold "Hurlock Brothers real English bangers" and dang, I have had them...

They scariest thing I have ever seen is young people in UK pubs ordering "Budwieser" rather than real beer because they have been seduced by the ads....

Same reason guys want a 427 rather than a real 289 FIA....!!!

Rick

Gonna go hide before you all come down on me....

[StephenC]

Hey Rick..................

Did you ever hear the story how CS created beer? Actually, he stole it from a German chemist living in London.



LMAO