Shelby Cobra or Ford GT that is the question

[Jamo]

Not that it matters much, but I heard they were going to produce 4500 over a few years.

[Jerry Cowing]

Evan,

I believe the reason you're seeing a difference between the threads and the survey scores is because of the difference between a dream and reality.

Most Cobra owners are average Joe's who couldn't afford to buy a Ford GT or any other exotic. If you had changed your poll even more to include the Enzo Ferrari and other exotics that sell for $650,000 or more, most folks would probably pick the most expensive car. After all, if you're going to dream, you might as well dream as big as you can. If you were to add an Original Cobra from the 60s that sell for $450,000, the score probably would have had the Original Cobra leading the score. I know this might start a controversy - again - but all Cobras made after 1966/7 are replicas no matter who manufactures them. The Ford GT is a replica of the GT 40, as is a CAV GT 40, Daytona replica, etc. If given a chance to dream, I think most people would pick an original car whether that be a Pontiac GTO, Dodge Daytona, Ferrari, etc. because of their rarity and the chance to sell them in the future for a big profit -- an investment. The Cobra replicas, like Hot Rods, are for fun and driving by the average Joe. The Ford GT, Enzo Ferrari, Original Cobras, etc. are for the 0.5 percent of our society that are filthy rich and can afford these exotics.

To answer your other question about why Ford only produced 2500 Ford GTs. I believe it is because the owners of Ford are part of this 0.5 percent and they want to re-assert their position in this "special" group by manufacturing an unaffordable car and don't really care about sales. For these filthy rich folks, it's all about showing off their position in society by being able to buy things most people couldn't afford -- sort of shuving it in the average guy's face. Rich people like to buy expensive things because it makes them feel above the average Joe. I have a friend who owns an art store and he is astounded how if he lowers the price of original oil paintings he can't sell them, but if he raises the price, the rich will buy them up because it makes them feel special. Ford also gets to be a member of this special wealthy club by being able to manufacture a car that is unaffordable to the averge person. The Ford GT price is artificially high not because there is something special about the parts or manufacturing, but because Ford held the production artificially low. If they increased production, they could reduce the price, but then that would mean the average Joe could now afford it and it would be just another Nissan 350 or Corvette. They have artificially kept production low and jacked up the price so only the wealthy can afford them and Ford can be part of a special priviledged group.

I don't think I'm being cynicle, it's just a fact of life that there is a special group of priviledged wealthy that want something to demonstrate how special and above the rest of us they are. Ford is providing these people with the Ford GT, the watch manufacturers have their Rolexes, etc. so these wealthy can wear these badges of wealth to show the average Joe that they are above them in society. We all know that a Casio watch is a better value than a Rolex watch, etc., but people buy the Rolex to flaunt their social status. Cobra replica owners on the other hand just love the fun of driving these cars and Casio owners just love to have the correct time.

[bmalone]

As Ron, said there is a lot to be said for any manufacturer getting you into their showroom. Chances are pretty good you may stay within the family. Just salemanship at that point.

[REAL 1]

Jerry Cowing: Good points. However, I chose the new CSX and the GT to compare since they are in the same relative price range. You figure $130K for a finished CSX with top shelf 427SO or aluminum 427. Both are replicas of their original counterparts but are both genuine as to what they are. A Shelby Cobra and a Ford GT.

I suspect the posts differ from the voting because most guys here already have a Cobra or replica thereof and see the GT as a new, exciting and different alternative. It is stunning. No denying that.

I wonder what the voting #s would be if you were asking a average joe who had neither. Speculation for sure. Tough choice for sure.

I would sell the Cobra if I opted for the GT. In the end I'm not sure if I could part with CSX 4206. Tough choice.

I don't expect to be able to get a GT if what my dealer tells me is true. I am also thinking that Ford may end up making more of them which may bring the price and values down ala' BMW Z8. I'm sure that some dealers will try to get a substantial "mark up" for the GT. No way will I pay any such mark up as a matter of principle. Thats just me. Which means waiting to see what happens may be smart. Maybe production #s increase and price goes down. Who knows.

I thought if they brought the GT in around $110 to 120K it would give alot of cars tough competition, including the Shelby Cobras, Porsches, Vipers, Ferraris, Vettes and they would sell alot of them but not enough to make them as common as many high end performance cars. It would certainly kill the ERA GT 40.

[Excaliber]

Jerry if your observation about the potential buyers is accurate: "Just someone tyring to show off" sort of thing then the GT-40 would NOT be for me.

However, as Evan pointed out, the MSRP is not "that far off" from a very nicely equipped Cobra. As far as "Cobra" owners go I have not seen the kind of "attitude" to which you refer in THIS group. But I certainly know what you mean.

I think it is a "no brainer" the first series of these cars WILL sell for well over MSRP. Perhaps those early buyers WILL be as you speculate. Therefore, lets hope "Real 1" gets one 'cause you know how humble everyone knows HE is.

Ha ha,,,,Evan, I just couldn't resist a good jab!

Ernie

[RaceDeck]

I think that the first run of these GT's will bring in top dollar and will be very hard for the average-joe. There are a number of factors that could make this car be as collectable as the the orignal 60's Shelby's.
First they should put together a racing program and whup on the prancing horse boys again at lemans and other prestigious races...Then they need to keep the production number low somewhat low, just as they did with the original 60's Shelby's..
(.A modern day example is the Viper GTS and ACR models, the total production for both of these coupes combined is around 7900 between 1996 - 2002 = around a 1000 a year average.

'96 GTS 1166
97 GTS 1671
'98 GTS 837
99 GTS 699
'99 ACR 215
'00 GTS/ACR 949
01 GTS/ACR 877
01 ACR 227
'02 GTS/ACR 918)

I personally hope they make more than a 1000 a year and they bring the price down somewhat...Unless I get lucky and fet my hands on one for a really really sweet deal....then I think they should only make a few hundred a year for

[REAL 1]

Interesting thought on collectibility.

The GT will number 2500 in total units I am told.

The new Shelby Cobra, especially in aluminum bodied variety will probably never reach those numbers espeically prior to Shelby passing on.

While the GT is similar in appearance to the original, it is a much different vehicle under the skin.

Compare the new Shelby Cobra. Identical in appearance both outside and under the skin. Same car, different era.

Interesting.

Man, I wish I could have both!

[Kputz]

Already made this decision, put the Cobra on the sale block, and plunked down the $6k for the GT order. Not even close in my estimation. One is a world class car. The other, unfortunately, is not.

[REAL 1]

Kputz: Just curious. Were you guaranteed a GT for the $6K at retail price??? How many are your dealership getting?

My friend had to give a deposit of $25K a year ago to get one.

P.S. Part of the charm of the Cobra is that its "60's" technology.

Also does anyone know if the new Ford GTs will be listed in the new SAAC registry???

[mr bruce]

Superformance is going to be the winner in this GT40 deal. Can't get one from FoMoCo? Go down to the local SPF dealer in September, they'll have them in stock, all colors. $50k for the roller.

[computerworks]

Originally posted by mr bruce


Superformance is going to be the winner in this GT40 deal. Can't get one from FoMoCo? Go down to the local SPF dealer in September, they'll have them in stock, all colors. $50k for the roller.

...and built to the original prints and specs, also.

truly a "same car, different era."

[RACER X #99]

Too bad most of the GT's will probably wind up collecting dust in the garages of the collectors.
Put a full cage in them and they would make a nice track car.

[Turk]

Interesting read to hear what average Joe thinks are the reasons why Ford will build 2500 or even 4500 and why do they bother advertising on Superbowl etc.

Halo car. Attention getter. Helps the brand. Publicity.
They can't eve begin to recover their R&D costs even if they built and sold 13,500 much less the production costs.

How much money do you think Chevrolet makes from the sale of SSR or even the Corvette?

The new C6 will be subsidized by the Corporation after the buyer has paid a good chunk of money to the dealer.

You can't do the R&D , meet all the Federal and State regulations, be eniromentally safe get good gas milage, survive the 5-10-30 MPH crash tests, develop all the parts and pieces that goes ONLY into that platform and then sell only 25,000 each year and have it be money maker.

In the early 90's I was told by some folks in the know that the cost of a Corvette to GM was in the vicinity of $92,000.
That was in the 90's.

I bet that number is over $150,000 for the new C6 Corvette now.

If you don' believe me look at how much you have wrapped up in your own cars, and that is with you doing the work and no compliances at all and no radio, no ABS, no AC etc.

The reason they have no incentive to make a lot more is because they couldn't make enough and sell enough to make it a profitable model. This ain't no Mustang.

When GM and Ford think numbers they are thinking 50,000 100,000.
We did away with the Camaro while it was selling in numbers bigger than all these.

Marketing! Pride! Bragging rights!!

TURK

[mr bruce]

And little 'ol SPF does it for $50k! Wonder if mean old FoMoCo goes after them for not meeting all the new car regs?

[mr bruce]

GM pays $5 bucks for a tyre, they buy millions of them,so whoever they get them off of don't care if they's going on a Vette or a Chevette. The motors in them Vettes have been in production for 10 years, I gotta think they got the tooling paid off by now. Tons of GM parts fit betwinxt their various badges, so that $150k is purely a pipe dream. Remember,GM is run by bean counters.

[BeanCounter]

Hey, whattsamatta with being run by beancounters. That's what makes them a profitable corporation. God forbid if it was run by marketing or the engineers. Besides, by being profitable on the other lines it allows them to offer those "bragging badges". I've bought two of them.

[Wahoo]

the Ford GT does it for me. Outperforms every modern supercar, has racing heritage and it is an instant collectible, even if you drive the hell out of it for 20k miiles. For cost basis, the GT will accrue value. Period.

[Wahoo]

If you gave me the choice of an a Stradale, a 456, a porsche GT2 or GT3, I'd still take the Ford GT. The sound of that engine and its unique look and ultimate collectability makes it a winner....total attitude. Now, if you asked about the Porsche Carrera GT, the Enzo and the GT that would be tough. The GT would be a hella lot easier to repair...a hella lot easier. It'd be a seat of the pants choice but I'd take the GT, take the difference and buy a Ferrari Stradale or GT2.
regards,
jon

[Kputz]

The $6k goes to the dealership to cut the order Evan. In my case, it took some strings pulled by some friends down at the glass house in Dearborn, as my local dealerships, being in small towns, won't qualify for even one of the things. Hence, "my" dealership is located in Dearborn, roughly 250 miles from me. The word I get from the people at the development center however, is that production will be lucky to top 1500 units the first year.
A friend of mine that drives at the test center has driven some of the early prototypes, cars that have some, but not all, of the total package of components that will appear on the end product. He and his buds say the final completed car will do everything "they" say it will do...and much, much more. If so, this puts it in the catagory of the first Testerosa, and we all know how much a model from that first run is worth today, even though thousands were produced after that first year.
It beats me, it's a crap shoot. Nothing I ever owned wasn't for sale with enough profit factored in. The word I keep getting back is, if the production numbers are what these guys say they will be (around 1500 units), this order in my fat little hand may well be worth several thousand bucks should I decide to sell my place in line to somebody. Time will tell.
One of the few times in my life I can't lose, I think. But then, I've been wrong a lot too.

[southernfriedcj]

Originally posted by Jerry Cowing


Evan,

I believe the reason you're seeing a difference between the threads and the survey scores is because of the difference between a dream and reality.

Most Cobra owners are average Joe's who couldn't afford to buy a Ford GT or any other exotic. If you had changed your poll even more to include the Enzo Ferrari and other exotics that sell for $650,000 or more, most folks would probably pick the most expensive car. After all, if you're going to dream, you might as well dream as big as you can. If you were to add an Original Cobra from the 60s that sell for $450,000, the score probably would have had the Original Cobra leading the score. I know this might start a controversy - again - but all Cobras made after 1966/7 are replicas no matter who manufactures them. The Ford GT is a replica of the GT 40, as is a CAV GT 40, Daytona replica, etc. If given a chance to dream, I think most people would pick an original car whether that be a Pontiac GTO, Dodge Daytona, Ferrari, etc. because of their rarity and the chance to sell them in the future for a big profit -- an investment. The Cobra replicas, like Hot Rods, are for fun and driving by the average Joe. The Ford GT, Enzo Ferrari, Original Cobras, etc. are for the 0.5 percent of our society that are filthy rich and can afford these exotics.

To answer your other question about why Ford only produced 2500 Ford GTs. I believe it is because the owners of Ford are part of this 0.5 percent and they want to re-assert their position in this "special" group by manufacturing an unaffordable car and don't really care about sales. For these filthy rich folks, it's all about showing off their position in society by being able to buy things most people couldn't afford -- sort of shuving it in the average guy's face. Rich people like to buy expensive things because it makes them feel above the average Joe. I have a friend who owns an art store and he is astounded how if he lowers the price of original oil paintings he can't sell them, but if he raises the price, the rich will buy them up because it makes them feel special. Ford also gets to be a member of this special wealthy club by being able to manufacture a car that is unaffordable to the averge person. The Ford GT price is artificially high not because there is something special about the parts or manufacturing, but because Ford held the production artificially low. If they increased production, they could reduce the price, but then that would mean the average Joe could now afford it and it would be just another Nissan 350 or Corvette. They have artificially kept production low and jacked up the price so only the wealthy can afford them and Ford can be part of a special priviledged group.

I don't think I'm being cynicle, it's just a fact of life that there is a special group of priviledged wealthy that want something to demonstrate how special and above the rest of us they are. Ford is providing these people with the Ford GT, the watch manufacturers have their Rolexes, etc. so these wealthy can wear these badges of wealth to show the average Joe that they are above them in society. We all know that a Casio watch is a better value than a Rolex watch, etc., but people buy the Rolex to flaunt their social status. Cobra replica owners on the other hand just love the fun of driving these cars and Casio owners just love to have the correct time.

Spoken like a true union member. Or did Kerry steal your password and post up.