BEWARE of Russell Proflex fuel line from Summit

[teamfour]

Recently I bought 30 feet of Russell Proflex fuel line and six AN fitting from Summit. I replaced all of my fuel lines from tank to motor with these items. The day after starting the motor for the first time I noticed a very strong smell of fuel in my garage. After checking for fuel leaks and finding none, I concluded that it is the fuel line itself which smells.

After asking about the problem on this forum and on corral.net, I had received enough negative responses to conclude that there is a problem with the Russell product.

After talking with Summit and the Summit tech talking to the mfr, I was told that Russell does not recommend using the fuel line for very long lengths. In fact they stated that they recommend using hard lines as much as possible. They admitted that the lines will seep fuel vapors. The product description on both Summit's website and Russells site stated that the fuel line is compatible with all fuels. No where does it warn of vapor seepage. Summit told me I was basically out of luck with my now worthless $150 dollars worth of fuel lines.

I am now concerned about an explosion hazard in my garage. I will more than likely not be allowed to show the car at indoor car shows. Now I have to spend more money and time to fix the problem caused by a mis-advertised and defective product.

I would highly suggest staying away from this product!

[petek]

Wow, that's weird! You'd think a stainless steel braided hose rated for something like 750 psi could hold vapors in! Did they say why it leaks vapors? Would it leak vapors from oil too? Man that's weird.

[mrmustang]

I did mention of FFCobra that I carry the Aeroquip/XRP lines.........


Bill S.

[trularin]

Sorry to hear you had this trouble.

I went SS up to the motor and then SS flex to the block.

Doesn't leak, but was a real pain to bend.

Good luck.

[Mark IV]

Flex or "soft" line is for use where the line must "flex"....hard line is for areas where it does not! Flex line is never recommended for long runs......you would need to install a "P" clamp every 3 inches to prevent it moving, vibrating and abrading the surface. While it may look "cool" it is not what it is intended for....

Don't know about the Russel line wicking vapors though...


Rick

[Michael C Henry]

Thanks . I've changed so much on my car the possible surprises that I expect actually are scaring me.Now the fuel hoses are suspect. I bought Russel and Earls parts last year and couldn't tell you now what is where.I'd bet that there is another brand of hose that would fit your fittings If replacement is crossing your mind.I changed to a return system and have a small attached garage and gasoline fumes or even smell is a concern.I also used a pile of conicle seals to ensure the connections don't leak. Is it possible that the smell -fumes could be leaking from any of the connections just small enough to not puddel? Ive grown to be a beleiver in conicle seals. I discoverd them while working with M1 tank engines. They use a lot of SS and those 19 year old GI's with buldging mussels and long wrenches would end up galling the connections.I now recamend them . I have since been succesful in stopping many fluid leaks on other vehicles that couldn't be stoped but a reason for the leak was not appearant.No damage to the sealing surfaces .they were surtatnly tight enough but would still seap fluid.use the correct conicle seal and just a little tightening and no leak.

[maxrpm]

This is one of those cases where I forgot what I learned. Certain braided lines are leak prone (which you've already learned). From what I remember it is the rubber inside that becomes porous. I watched a friends car actually spraying raw fuel from his lines. We couldn't believe our eyes! They were not leaking from fittings but right through the braided steel weavings! You have to request the fuel friendly braided lines. The dummies behind the counter won't recommend it to you until you go back to the store and tell them the line you just bought is leaking. Luckily I had four friends with this problem before I installed my fuel system in my cobra. It's funny, we assumed the first car that did it just had a defect and my friend just replaced the lines thinking it was fixed. Then three other cars started leaking within a month of each other and that's when we started asking around.
If you're only smelling fumes at this point, consider your self lucky and remove all of it quickly. It's only a matter of time before raw fuel starts spraying out from everywhere! I'm all for excitement but the excitement of opening the hood on the side of the road and finding raw fuel sizzling on hot header tubes I can do without!

[arthurr]

Thank you very much for posting this issue!

I thought I was out of my mind. I just got a new car with steel braided fuel line. After a few days the garage started smelling like gas. I examined every piece of the car and could not find a leak.

I finally went out and spent $300 on a combustible gas detector. As I suspected the gas lines were weeping fuel vapors. Now this I took to be poor installation of the AN fittings (gas leaking down the hose inbetween the steel braid and rubber). So after purchasing $60 of steel braided hose to refit two of the ten hoses I thought I was set. The gas detector did not register a bit of vapor......that is until the next day when the new hose was putting off fuel vapor just like the one I replaced.

I searched the internet for it seems days until I found this post. So after reading it I called Russell today and ask them about the line being used for fuel and the fact that their site said this was an intended use. They said of course this line would work for fuel. I then pressed them and exlained your post and ask for a customer service supervisor. The supervisor then indicated that yes this is a problem that has been reported to them before. I suggested they change their web site to highlight this issue.....but I dont believe they will make the change.

Anyway long way of saying thanks. The post saved me time and money and Russel should be ashamed of themselves.

[maxrpm]

I used 1/2"dia. aluminum fuel tubing from the sump to the fuel pressure regulator.

[Dan Stryffeler]

Kinda amazed at this thread... I used Aeroquip lines from the tank to the fuel filter/pump and then the long run all the way to my fuel log. Never had any problems; lines are clamped about every 18" or so, (not every 3" as in a earlier post), no apparent flexing or abrasion going on.

I would guess that the need for hard lines would be with fuel injection (at the higher pressures), my carbs at 5-7lbs are just fine with the braided stuff.

I went with the braided stuff so that it could make all the bends easily and also would have some protection anything that gets kicked up under the car like small rocks, broken glass, etc.

- Dan

[arthurr]

Fuel pressure runs at 43 PSI. Maybe the pressure is the issue, but to be clear it is not like the fuel is dripping from the lines, its the smell. If you keep you car in a well ventilated area you might not even notice it. The combustible gas detector is what confirmed the problem for me.

[trularin]

It's the vapor that burns.

Having just vapor is worst than liquid gas.

You could be correct with the fuel pressure, but I would not risk a fire for SS Flex line.

Maybe you should use tubing.

Just a suggestion.

[Mr.Fixit]

Run as little flex hose as possible. Hard line along the frame rail up to the engine compartment, then flexhose to the motor. Braided stainless hose has a lifespan the same as regular rubber hose, it will crack and seep, but you don't see that because of the braided cover. SS flex hose is fine for high pressure FI, but use only as much as necessary.

[Tom T.]

I think Aeroquip or one of the other outfits has braided line with a teflon inner line that's used for aircraft applications because it won't weep fumes. Anyway, I had the same problem you do with my first Cobra, and switched out to hard line and the problem disappeared right away. It was a fuel injected 5.0, as I recall.

Good luck,

TT

[maxrpm]

It's not from fuel pressure. a friends GTO using a Holley blue pump(14psi max.?) also had this happen. The fuel itself deteriorates the line. Like I mentioned in an earlier post I saw this happen in four different cars with four different fuel systems. They've all converted to aluminum hard lines with a/n fittings. When those braided lines fail you better have a good fire extinguisher handy because even at 9 psi you won't believe the spray shooting from the ruptured lines.

[427 S/O]

Like Dan, I've had no problems. Could it possibly be you didn't assemble one or more of the ends correctly?.

[arthurr]

I think that could be possible if it were just one or two lines but all of them' about ten diffeent sections' indicate weepage (if thats a word)

[maxrpm]

Is this really that hard to understand? The leaking does not come from the fittings. It comes from right through the steel braid. You don't know this is happening because up until the moment the line finally fails everything looks great. It's not leaky fittings or the lines flexing too much or chafing of the braided line or high fuel pressures. The inside of the line deteriorates from fuel over time and finally fails. Back when all my friends were experiencing braided line failures we decided to dissect some of the leaking lines to see what was going on inside. What we found was (surprise!) deteriorated inner linings throughout. You have two options, either wait to see if or when the line finally fails or upgrade to another type of fuel line and have peace of mind that you won't be happily motoring down the highway and suddenly your cars fuel system begins spraying fuel everywhere resembling a high octane lawn sprinkler system.
You know what, I never had this problem with any of my cars but I think thats because most of the cars I built I sold off within a 1-2 year span. But after witnessing others with this problem I took heed.

"he's real fast!" "yeah, but he's stupid..."

[Rick Parker]

A close source of mine in the speed parts trade stated that this is a known fact and is not confined to a specific brand He said this has more to do with the shelf life of the actual hose purchased. He stated that there is some sort of disclaimer in the Earls catalog regarding this very thing. Scheduled replacement sounds like a good idea.

Rick.............

[petek]

Wouldn't even a short length of the hose exhibit the same problem? Wouldn't that mean that the stainless steel braided hose of any length could catastrophically fail at any minute? I'm going to have to dig up Carroll Smith's Plumbing book and see what the expert has to say...

... ok, quick scan of his text "Nuts, Bolts, Fasteners and Plumbing Handbook" (the book he wanted to name "Screw to Win"...), anyway, Mr. Smith flat out says he does not use hard lines for gas lines and uses stainless steel braided hose for gas lines. He also says he only uses Earls and Aeroquip.

I cannot deny that folks have experienced problems with stainless steel braided lines, but I find it interesting that the aircraft and racing industry seems to swear by the same stuff.

I wonder if there is a fuel additive that is causing the failure?