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Kirkham Motorsports

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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 03-27-2004, 07:01 AM
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Default Re: Alan

Quote:
Originally posted by CSX 4027


Could you compare this car to the others that are available such as the ERA and the CAV as far as chassis originality and why you feel this car is possibly superior to the others. Not to make the thread look like a bashing but since the GT40 is a complex car and few replica's are out there as opposed to the Cobra, I think it would help all understand more about the car.

[color=royalblue]I'm not going to go into a car "A" is a better one than car "B" direction,,,,,,,,because what is better for one person's needs may not be the best choice for everyone.

It's sort of like asking "which is the best cobra replica?" (which is always a question that makes me cringe.)

My opinion is that there is no "best" cobra out there, because the first thing you need to decide is what you expect from the car you choose....

Therefore, if originality or "period correctness" to the original is your number one goal,,, I suppose a new CSX, Kirkham, Premier, or ERA would be your choice.

If having a car on the road for around $25k is your goal, then you would probably find the FFR or B&B, or Shell Valley are "better" choices for you.

If you are looking for a cobra replica designed first and foremost as a competitive track car,with on board adjustable roll bars,etc, most would agree that the JBL would be the best choice.
This is sort of the catagory the GT40NA will fall into.

Of course, depending on your priorities, compromises have to be made.
For instance, the folks at GT40NA wanted to make the interior more comfortable, and more updated than what the original racing cars had in the sixties.
The result is a more supportive seat than the original and air conditioning, but the drawback is that the seats don't "look" like the originals.

The same type of "compromise" goes for the wheels as well.
In order to clear the large modern braking system on the car, and use the highest available speed rated street tires, 17 inch wheels had to be fitted to the car. They do have the original "halibrand styling", but any purist can see right away that they are definately not original.

The goal at GT40NA was not to make a "spot on" period car, as there are already some fine examples of this being done.
If someone call me and tells me he is looking for a very accurate replica, with all of the "period" features of the original, I will suggest they look at the ERA car as it is a beautiful car, and is probably exactly what he is looking for.

One goal of the GT40NA engineers was to solve some of the very common driveability issues, that alot of GT40 replicas ( and other mid engine sports cars) have.

The big one here is on the cooling system. Alot of mid engine cars have cooling system problems. The guys at GT40NA have their aluminum radiators specially made at C&R racing.
C&R is one of the most respected names in racing radiators, as they supply units to many NASCAR,Indy car & other race teams.
They also happen to be located in Indy,, within minutes of the GT40NA facility.
The radiators are mounted into a carbon fiber rad support along with the a/c condensor, soft hoses are race quality silicone units, and there are air bleeds routed at the rad and from the engine to the resevoir. Twin high speed electric fans are mounted to the custom tabs which are built onto the rad housing.

The air conditioning system also has been set up to run as efficiently as possible. GT40NA mounts the condensor at the front of the radiator where it can be in dircet airflow as the car moves, and also be cooled by the electric fans. It is also possible to fit a larger condensor up in the fornt.
Some companies do not do it this way. They prefer to mount the a/c condensor in the engione compartment. This way costs a little less, because you can only use a small condensor, and you don't have the expense of running hoses all the way to the front.
....but it is not as efficient as having the condensor up front.

Chassis is another example of possible getting into a great debate, as purists would all like to see monocoques as the original cars had.
The GT40NA chassis is a tubeframe with replaceable front & rear subframes in case of crash damage. The use a combination of steel,aluminum, and carbon fiber, inner structure/sub panneling.
Again, here compromises have been made and "originallity" have taken a back seat to other priorities such as foot room, and ease of repairs in case of damage, etc.

The GT40NA priorities/goals are to build a fast, lightwieght, reliable, supercars, with modern conveniences, but the "outward" resemblence of racing cars of the 1960s.


so....that being said, I don't neccassarily think the GT40NA is better or superior to other GT40 replicas currently available,,,,, since (to me) the first thing one should do (when looking into this type of performance vehicle), is decide what will best suit their needs.[color]
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 03-27-2004, 07:50 AM
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here's the link to C&R racing. They are the radiator supplier to GT40NA.http://www.crracing.com/aboutus/

The guys at GT40NA have made every effort to use the highest quality components for the cars.
Quote:
Originally posted by mr bruce


Since this is a finished ,running car(?),not a "kit", how on earth is it titled and registered. Does it pass OBD11? Crash tests?, etc. Price seems a scosh high, but maybe there is a market. SPF GT-40 should come in at $50K less moter /trans, and the new Ford GT is only S139K
The car does not pass OBD II, and crash testing is has not been completed (yet). Too much typing is required to go into the titling/registration process, and it does vary from state to state.
If you would like to discuss the process, call me at the shop next week 785-228-2440 8am-5pm central time.


"high price" is a relative term. To a guy looking into a used F40 at a quarter mil, the GT40NA is a bargain. ...especially when you consider the fact that he won't be waiting for parts to arrive from Modena everytime he needs something.

To a guy who just finished building a $20k cobra replica, 100 plus for a toy is probably a fortune.


Less than an hours drive from me is a number of cobra replicas in or over the 100k area.

One of my students last year at a PCA driving event had over $150k invested in his highly modified pantera,,,,and it was an awful car on the track. It had a "bolt in" roll cage that sucked up what little room was in the interior. (I had to ride in it with my hemlet against the rollbar),,,,the car pushed so bad the steering wheel nearly shook out of his hands, and the car was just a bear to try and keep on the track.

I have a customer who bought a used diablo. He paid around $180k for the car and it has less than 10 kmiles on it.

When he first got it, he wanted to have the windows tinted, but had to bring it to me first because the drivers window only came to about 3/8 of an inch from completely closing, and the pass side door was jammed shut.

I fixed his window and door, then he managed to "get on it" while leaving the window tint shop, because he wanted to impress them with his toy.
Well,he exploded the pinion gear on the thing.
The car is cramped, unreliable, the clutch is ridiculously stiff, you can't see out of the thing, and it just sucks to drive it.

You can bet I will be showing him the GT40NA as soon as possible, since this is a car he can actually drive, (without the worries his lambo comes with.)


The GT40NA was not "built to a price". Usually when this approach is used, compromises are made that are less than desireable.

The GT40NA car is built with focus on using the highest quality, components available for the car first, and production costs lower on the list.

As far as there being a market for this car. My biggest concern is how to keep the orders filled.

The new SPF car should be interesting to see. If it actually does come in at the projected price, they should be pretty successful with it.

As far as the ford unit being"only"$139k, I have yet to hear of any ford customer being able to purchase one for that price.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 03-27-2004, 09:06 AM
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No way you will be able to buy a Ford GT anywhere near the MSRP.

Ernie
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 03-27-2004, 01:23 PM
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Well maybe not for the first 6 months but with 1,500+ of them being made in the first year alone, I would bet that someone could buy one for less than $100K after the first year (a used one of course).

Ford has gotten into this "limited production" wording recently to generate sales and then make as many (or more) as they can sell once production starts.

Just look at the new Mach 1s and Harley edition trucks, Cobras, etc. They all can be had at $10K less after one year of ownership.

Just my thoughts but the new Ford GT market will be similar to the viper market in that if you want a brand new one you will pay the ($140K) sticker. But if you are willing to wait a year or two for a used one it can save you at least 1/3 of the cost of a new one (est. approx $95K for the GT). Again just my opinion but time will tell...

So at that rate, I would expect any GT-40 replica to go for less than that brand new unless it is an authentic replica down to every nut and bolt (or rivet) of an original.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 03-27-2004, 03:03 PM
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I wonder if they will raise in price as time goes on and will never be as cheap as now?? It's happened! Oh that I had a crystal ball. NOT confident enough to buy one for an investment.

Ernie
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