Insurance & Tuners: Beware of the Trend

[Cal Metal]

AutoWeek had an interesting piece on insurance companies and tuners that might be of interest to some of you. Loosely defined, the tuners are those Fast & Furious types (Acuras, Hondas "Subis", EVOs, etc) who elect to modify their cars through motor and suspension tuning.

In Canada, State Farm is dropping coverage on those people who make these modifications, especially the lowering of the car, without contacting the company before receiving permission from their agent. They go on to say that they will not cover a person, even though insured, if an accident occurs and the company finds that modficiations were made without notification. The next step is if it will carry south to the States.

The article said that this is somewhat equivalent to what we saw in the late 60s with the muscle car era. The insurance industry must be seeing an increase in claims with this group and is taking some pretty bold and decisive action.

Does this mean that my Neon ACR is in trouble?

[427sharpe]

Only if you leave on the red day-glo lights, all those sponsor decals and the 4 foot wing you put on! Oh,,and you might consider taking off the "A$$, Gas or Cash; nobody rides for free"
mudflaps. And while you're at it...TURN DOWN THAT DAMNED RADIO!
Seriously though...the thought of the insurance co's making moves like this again is a bit unsettling. I am in my 40's, clear driving record and I still got raked over the coals when I bought my sport bike.

[klayfish]

Cal,
Not a surprise at all. Insurance underwriters want to know exactly the risk they are taking when they write a policy. So when they quote a price on a Civic, unless told otherwise, they are believing that it is a factory stock Civic. They do not want to be involved with the "Fast and Furious" crowd, as they perceive it as a much higher risk category. Here in the States, in order to deny a claim after they have written the policy, they will have to have an exclusion in the policy clearly stating they have the right to do this. And the Department of Insurance in that state has to approve that exclusion.
We already run into similar situations with the import crowd now. They stick a Plymouth Superbird wing on the back, lights, etc... on their Civic. When it gets wrecked, NONE of that stuff is covered unless they have a specific endorsement on their policy to cover it. They policy only covers what comes on a showroom car. These kids don't read the policy and it becomes an ugly scene.

Steve

[Excaliber]

I suspect this "tuner movement" is bigger than what we had with the 60's muscle cars. The amount of money involved in modifying these cars is certainly WAY more than anything we've seen in automotive history in the past. I do blieve the "danger" level is also more significant than before.

The ramifications of these "tuners" is being felt here in Hawaii in many different ways also. In the last 3 years or so there have been MANY horrific and deadly accidents involving these cars. Several per year, worthy of extreme headlines in the news.

Most recent case a Catholic school teacher on her way to CHURCH in her Mini Van hit and killed by a tuner doing well over 100 mph. Prosecutor is seeking MURDER charges.

Result of these many "racing" incidents? Legislature now looking at intense speeding ticket laws, to include JAIL TIME, loss of drivers license and forfiture of the vehicle. Amount of speed over the limit hotly debated. Some say 30 mph, some say 20 mph. This will impact ME. Talk of "cameras" to catch speeders.

The "public" is fed up with it, the tension is thick. Insurance companies cannot be far behind.

Ernie

[Cal Metal]

Interesting. We don't see much of that around here, let alone the horrific accidents that some of you have described. I will get the word out to some members of our local SCCA club. A little knowledge could go a long way in making sure these people play it straight with their insurance companies.

I test drove a Neon SRT the other day. The local Chrysler dealer gave me a call. They are hard to get and they run like a "raped ape"--wind up as fast as a Rotary engine.

The dealer told me that, despite their high demand, the sale is not easy. People who want them are in the less than 25 yr. old range. Cost isn't as much a concern as is the insurance. He said some of these guys are paying close to $200 a month to insure them. I didn't realize the problems that this segment was having until I read the AW piece and heard from you guys.

[Art Burtt]

If an insurance company covers a vehicle for collision loss,they charge premium in proportion to the vehicles value,as, lets say a 2004 Civic. If the insured adds equipment that increases this value,why should the company pay for those extras. Maybe the equipment manufacturer should warn people of this fact. Of course many factors go into calcualtion of the total policy cost,such as age and experience of the driver,driving record,useage,and deductibles. The losses of the people who have claims are covered by the premiums paid by all insureds. Why should drivers of non-altered cars pay for the extra ordinary losses of those who choose to alter their cars?

[Excaliber]

Insurance covering the "wings" and mods on these cars in Hawaii I would think take second place to the massive law suits these accidents generate. Not to mention medical bills.

I recall one case where the car was in the parents name. The PARENTS got sued and they lost their house over the deal. The kid went to jail. I'm pretty sure they weren't worried about the car radio at that point.

Ernie

Edit for addtional response:

I'm getting the impression here that Hawaii is a unique case with it's high speed (100 plus is typical) accidents involving the tuners. I wonder if it has something to do with having only ONE race track here and virtually no highways to "speed" on? The race track events are NOT geared toward the "tuners". Would this help? Perhaps the mainland is big enough for them to find isolated highways to do their thing?

[klayfish]

Ernie,
I'll bet the parents WERE worried about the radio. If the damn kid hadn't been f*&^ing with it, the accident wouldn't have happened!!!

Seriously, that is exactly right. The policy holder is going to be the one responsible at the end of the day. The driver can, and often is, brought in as a party to the suit, but the policy holder is the primary party.

Steve

[Ron61]

Klayfish,

I am not sure what kind of problems they have in your area, but around here the biggest seems to be lowering them so low they drag the street when they hit a pot hole which makes up about 75% of our streets. It is hard to drive on just that 25% pavement. They have installed cameras at several lights and intersections in Redding. We have only had a few bad accidents that was caused by them and those were more due to inattention and loud music than anything else. The music was so loud in one accident that people five blocks away were watching the van because of it and that kid drove past two stopped cars at a red light and right in front of an 18 wheeler that had his horn blaring. Close up witnesses said the kid never even looked up. I live just a few blocks from a body shop and they had a small pick up in there repairing damage to the right front fender and bumper and the owner told me they get a lot of that kind of work as they are so low that they hit bumps and even driveways that go up at an angle with them. In only one accident I have heard of was speed an issue. They have them lower all the way around than the lowest place on my Cobra. And yet, I never see any of them get stopped or a ticket for that. The cameras have really raised the tickets issued but haven't solved the problems.

Ron

[Art Burtt]

There are laws on how high a vehicle can be maybe there should be laws on how low they can be.

[Ron61]

Art,

There is a law here about how low they can be. It just seems that they will only enforce it against a street rod or something like that.

Ron

[flipper35]

Here some of the cars are so low they hit the bump stops when the body rolls on a 40mph turn and nearly go out of control. It is stupid for these people to buy something and not understand the changes that have to be made to go along with what they just did. And most of these cars have pretty much stock motors (or they got ripped off) so it is all an 'image' car.

[mr bruce]

Accedent? All they got to say is the driver didn't have permission to drive the car, and the owner/policy holder is off the hook.

[REDSC400]

Gents:
The overall implications of this article in AutoWeek are very, very sobering and of great importance to all of us.

Essentially, the jist of the article is:

1) Insurance companies can and will refuse to insure your vehicle if they feel you have modified the vehicle for performance purposes.

2) Insurance companies have the right to refuse payment of claims if the vehicle was modified AND you, the owner, have not reported the modifications to them.

3) Modifications to vehicles who's purpose is to increase performance above and beyond the "stock" vehicle performance profile can put the car into a high risk category.

This is in general not new news at all. However, I suggest to all here, this is not a discussion of "undercarriage lites" or bling bling paint jobs or aero kits... far from it.

This is a discussion of a vehicles "stock" performance profile from an insurance company perspective (which categorizes the vehicle into a risk pool) and then with simple modifications, by the shade tree mechanic, a vehicle's performance profile morphs into something quite different.

ie: The naturally asperated Toyota Supra (insured as such) easily transformed with $5K of aftermarket add ons into a 500HP vehicle. This is the angle that the insurers are wary of..

Just My two centavos...

BTW, I have been thru this before, back in 1966 and 73 which was one of the key factors which lead to the end of the muscle car era.

[Art Burtt]

The policy covers the car. Doesn't matter who is driving it. Unless insured can prove it was stolen. If the accident occured while the driver was responding to a fire or medical emergency as a fireman or paramedic volunteer,most companies will not surcharge the policy. Whether or not they renew the policy after such an incident is another matter.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

As most of you know I'm in the insurance claims industry.....Laws vary a great deal from state to state and policys vary a great deal from company to company....

For instance,in Louisiana,the company I work for,right now,if you "add" something to your vehicle (wing,wheels,stereo equipment,etc.,etc.) and it is permanately attached to the vehicle (lug nuts,screws,one screw),then it becomes part of the vehicle and if it is damaged we have to pay for it.....Wheels are not that big of an issue,right now it is stereo equipment,kids in high school buy a $2,000.00 Isuszu pickup and then goes and puts 4k or more of speakers,amps,cd changers,cross-overs, and a few other gizmos I can't remember,truck gets totaled,we owe for the truck and the 4k of stereo stuff,but he only paid premiums for a 2k truck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The company I work for is in the process of re-writing their policys.... In the near future,the vehicle will on be covered for factory installed items,if you later up-grade your stereo equipment and want it covered fine,you will have to bring in reciepts for the equipment and your premium will reflect the increased value to the vehicle,same will go for wheels,wings and anything else you add and want covered..... I personally think it is only fair..... You pay premiums for a 2k truck and when it gets totalled or your 4k stereo stuff gets stolen you want them to cover your loss without ever paying premiums for these items......

Around here we have not seen any increase in "tuner high speed" accidents.... May be that the local as well as state police have been advertising they are watching for this ever since "Fast & Furouis" came out..... Now we have a "drag racing " law in these parts..... It is about a half notch under a DUI and the judges have been going pretty hard on these tickets........

We do have a lot of racing venues though,at least five dirt tracks within 1.5 hours of my house,two drag strips,and 5 autocross clubs..... Can't say if that makes a difference or not,but the drag strips now have "Import Only" weekends and they are usually full of cars as well as spectators......

Art; In Louisiana,inusrance follows the vehicle first and registered owner second,only if it can be proved the vehicle was taken and used without the owners consent and/or knowledge can the insurance company deny coverage for an accident....only other occasion is that if an excluded named driver was driving the vehicle...also there is a law about the minimum and maximum heights of any vehicles bumpers.....problem is the only ones they check are the monster truck wannabe 4x4s.....

David

[maxrpm]

I just recieved this spy photo of the hardware that US Ins. Group will be using to cancel all 'tuner' policies....

[Highland Daytona Racing]

Actually guys this is not a new policy or occurance in my limited knowledge.

My first car was a 1972 SS-396 Nova given to me at the ripe ole age of 15 by my grandfather, yup, Ole pop like torque. Anyway, at that time I was working for free with a local NJ race chassis company by the name of Bontempo Brothers racing, still in business I believe, hung around the brothers for years learing most everything I now know about chassis fabrication and suspension geometry. Anyway to the point here; my Nova, although not actually insured intil I was 17, was a track only car untill then. The car evolved from a 14.5 sec bone stock car to a 9.8 second blown 470 Cubed full on bad ass. At that time I was not able to get the car through inspection for the obvious reasons, so I opted for Commercial plates, which at that time was a serious gray area, the car was still insured under my grandfather.....

Long story longer; Some butt head backed into the car at the Blue Star shopping parking lot on Rt-22 in Scotch Plains NJ, and of course not knowing what we all know now, we called it in. Yup, the claims adjuster came and looked and that was all she wrote, or Un-wrote in this case. Basically after that I couldnt get insurance because they all seemed to begin the polisy which I believe is now standard today, that they want to see the car before writing the policy, so we took it off the street and I built myself an 8.8sec Pro street 1970 corvette that I had titled and insured through a family member in NY, but thats another strory all together.

PS: Between the ages of 17 and 26 I lost my NJ drivers license 6 times and was invited not to have another one. So, here I am in Beautiful rural Montana where I occasionally pass the HWY patrol at a buck point five on our vacant Hwy and they wave! Long way from hot summer night street racing in LBI. Some of you Jersey guys might remember me, I was the bright yellow 72 Nova going light to light on my rear wheels on Long Beach Island!

Rick Ellis
HDR

[RockSnake]

Sad stuff. Insurance is a disease. The insurance industry has done more to hurt themselves (and us) than any other.

ca 1970: The insurance companies decide they don't want to pay the price of new body parts. In response to a 'need' for used parts, chop-shops proliferate.

ca 1980: The insurance lobby campaigns agains "insurance fraud" as the culprit behind high premiums. I personally report two cases of fraud, to the impacted company, and am told they will do nothing about it.

As I see it, the reason there are so many attorneys in America is that there are so many a$$holes in the insurance industry.

[klayfish]

Rock,
Out of curiousity, where are you getting these facts from? You're implying that insurance companies are responsible for chop shops?? And you think insurance fraud really doesn't raise your rates?? Seems to me you don't have a lot of insight into the industry. Might want to try taking a closer look.

Steve