Ford or Chevy V8s?

[Ad-the-Lad]

Hello everyone! My name's Adam and I'm a motoring journalist from the UK writing an article in a brochure for an engine building company called British American Engines. I'm writing about Chevy and Ford V8 (small block or big block) and would like to ask you guys which one you would prefer to use (1) as an engine builder and (2) if you were to fit one into a replica Cobra (sorry to swear, but a lot of those who will be reading this article build their own cars)? It's kind of a debate article, weighing up the pros and cons of both; eg, size, weight, ease of build, power, etc.

I'd really appreciate your help and if the web administrator is reading this post I'd be happy to send you the article when it's published.

Thank you all in advance for your input. It will be invaluable.

Best wishes,
Adam

Adam James, freelance motoring journalist

[Wild Thing]

Hi Adam, isn't the Internet a funny thing? A british journalist, posting in an US - forum, and the first answer comes from Germany.

In the US, most Cobras are equipped with a Ford engine. Chevy engines are rare in cobras, and they have a much lower resale value. The original shelbys were equipped with Ford, and the US boys seem to have the demand to be as close to the original as possible, also you might discuss the point that originals have never been equipped with a 302, 351, 460 or 502.

Over here in Europe, things are different. my personal estimate is that around 50% are equipped with Chevy, 20% with Ford, 25% with Rover V8, and the rest with 4- or 6 cylinder engines. Chevy engines are cheaper, you have a better availability or spares, and tuning costs less, also they are heavier than Ford engines. Rover engines are the litest and the most expensive in parts. You can stroke them up to 5 liters and prob. 350 hp.

[Hotfingrs]

Adam, Ford seems to be the engine of choice in the states. I choose to go with Chevy for this reason....Right now I use a SBC but in the future if I choose to opt for the BB it will drop right in, no changing motor mounts. When I was looking at Ford's, I found there were to many different locations for motor mounts to make changing easy, without chassis mods.

[wilf leek]

Adam - you naughty chap you. Fancy stirring up these fine American folk with a question like that!

Ok, here's my view, FWIW.

Indigenous Americans tend to be either "Ford Guys" or "Chevy Guys", and never the twain shall meet. Rather like Australians fall into either the Holden (GM) or Ford camps.

We never really had that culture in the UK, so purely because the drag race boys latched onto Chevy V8s early on, Joe public associated the words "American V8" with Chevy, and usually small blocks. Big Blocks were just so far outside the range of the average English guy's motoring experience as to be simply marked down as "American excess", and ignored.

In those early days, there were far more aftermarket tuning parts available for Chevy than for Ford engines, and the Ford items ran out a lot dearer than their GM counterparts.

That really isn't the case these days, and there is a miniscule difference between the cost of a Ford or Chevy small block for similar power outputs. Probably Chevy has an edge in trick aftermarket parts still, but it is a small edge.

Big Block is different - And I will allow others to comment on that, but in my view, there are few if any engine builders in the UK who properly understand Ford Big Blocks, and not many who understand Chevy ones. The hallowed Ford 427so engine from the Cobra is now a rare and expensive item, to be cherished and loved by only a very few of the very best engine builders. SO much so that brand new blocks are now being made to cater for the insatiable demand.

And now the $64k question - which engine to put into a Cobra replica?

Let me say here and now that IMHO, there is no intrinsic merit or demerit in engines from either camp. There are no significant differences in weight, size, or performance characteristics between a Ford and a Chevy sb. Each has it's fair share of tricks to extract the best from any given component combination. BUT!!!

The Cobra was Ford's weapon against GM on the race track in the 60's. It beat the living $hit out of the Corvettes for a while there. And Ford took the smile from Enzo's face at LeMans, although it had to put the Cobra powerplant into the GT40 to do it.

To put a GM engine into a vehicle inextricably bound up with Ford race lore is therefore unthinkable, if you have any feel for, or knowledge of, that period at all. So my vote goes to the Ford engine in a Cobra replica, and that's just what I did. I have become a pariah in UK replica circles for my constant preaching of this immutable law. NO GM ENGINE SHOULD BE FOUND IN A COBRA! And yet they still do it, poor deluded fools.

After all - how many Corvette guys even contemplate putting a 351W into their cars? It just ain't done. It just ain't even thought about, and neither should the concept of a Chevy engine in a Cobra be.

[Dirty Harry]

Wilf,
jolly good, old man!

[Clois Harlan]

Thank you Wilf,

You explained my view quite nicely.

In my opinion there is more to a Cobra than the aesthetics and lines of the contours. It must have the soul and courage that only a blue oval can manifest.



Clois

[CHRIS POTTER]

Wilf, excellent explanation, done only as a proper Englishman could. I concur with you, and Clois seals my view, as well.

[mattr762]

I may be wrong, but didn't Carrol Shelby go to Chevy first? Didn't Carrol want a chevy engine but GM turned him down?

After all - how many Corvette guys even contemplate putting a 351W into their cars?

The Corvette is a GM design manufactured by GM with a GM engine.
The Cobra is a Shelby design manufactured by Shelby with the second choice Ford engine.

I'm a "Chevy Man" that loves the Cobra, so I'm in a tough spot. Do I build my dream car the way I want? Or do I build it to please the hardcore Cobra lovers? Should I build it so it will have the highest resale value? Or should I build it were its easier and cheaper to work on?

I think the debate could also be over a new age ford engine vs an old period correct engine. If you're talking original specs I think a 5.0 Mustang engine is just as wrong as a Chevy engine.

Oh, I guess I will accept my stoning now.

[wilf leek]

Matt - the fact that Shelby may or may not have approached GM for an engine is immaterial. He did not get it, and the Cobra had Ford engines exclusively during it's original reign.

Look at it like this - you had a 50/50 chance of being born a woman. Should you now wear a dress?

I personally believe that the Cobra is synonymous with Ford, but of course, that is just my personal belief. You go build your car however you like it's your car, your money, your dream. Just don't want you to spend the rest of it's existence trying to justify why you put the "wrong" engine in it.

[mattr762]

Wilf,
I'd like the car to look like the designers original dream, not the finished product. The 2 can vary dramatically.

I relate that to my dads original '69 Corvette. When he desided to have it painted he debated with "Should I have it painted like the original with orange peel and all? Or should I have the boby smoothed to perfection and painted with an absolute perfect 10 mile reflection job?" I'm sure the original designer did not design the car with orange peel.

Here is another view:
If you're trying to make your car closer to original with a Ford engine, you'd better have a round chassis frame under your aluminum body.


Ok, you can hang me now.

[blykins]

He may have went to GM first....but it didn't end up with a Chevy engine in it....it ended up with a Ford engine in it.

If you start looking at, "Well, Shelby 'thought' about doing it this way...." then you're just spinning your wheels. It's a replica of a car....not what the car could have been or what he thought about doing.

[Jim Holden]

Matt:

While to a certain extent it may sound illogical to argue that a replica should have the original style Ford motor vs. anything else, when the chassis into which it goes may be of a substantively different design than that of the original AC chassis or the Ford engineer's revised big block version, there is, in my experience, no denying that the resale value of the cars is adversely impacted if any other than a Ford motor is utilized.

For all of it, I have always regarded the Fiero motored "Ferrari" kits, regardless as how well done visually they may be, as unworthy of consideration because to me the "heart" of the car is the motor. Without a Ferrari motor, there is no conection with the real car. A motor "transplant" somehow deminishes the car. Thus, to me an Ol' FE or Windosr Ford motor is the only way to go.

As I will acknowledge; somewhat illogical, but I am not alone in this perspective.

Jim

[MIKE SCHULZ]

Gentlemen;I am a Die-Hard Chebby Nut ...but I am also a perfectionist - trying to make things as proper as possible!.The Cobra in my opinion has to be Ford (FE) Powered.How many times have you Heard, seen, or participated in "Shunning" a Cobra that you may have seen at a Carshow powered by anything else ?.I realize that there may be better, or lighter, or bigger engines out there but ...IT JUST AINT RIGHT!. "The Man" decided it should be Ford Powered and thats just the way it is.Matter of fact - Now my first 2 Ford Engines are 427`s and I`m glad that I`ve expanded my Horizons to include Ford.I`m not by any means "Jumping Ship"....Just gonna see how much fun I can have with these engines....just my $.02 worth

[flipper35]

How dare you put me in with those Ford and Chevy guys?

I am not a purist, but I think the Cobra should have a very healthy V8 in it. For resale and shows, sure a correct 260/289/427/428 would be ideal. Beyond that it isn't a big deal wht brand is under the hood. They can all make lots of power if you want. Chevy parts are a dime a dozen and that is attractive to lots of people. Personally I wanted a lightweight, powerful roadster that handles relatively well. I liked the looks of the Cobra so that's what I got. Had I to do it all over again, I would get a Ford motor, but only because thats what the JBL is set up for. But then the body/chassis/suspension on those is nothing like the original. Everything is a compromise.

[G.R.]

In a Cobra should be a Ford--although here in the U.S., Chevy engines, especially SB are less expensive to build. You can find hundreds of engine and custom dress-up parts for Chevy often in greater quanity, readily available off the shelf than you can for Ford. BB it is a toss up. The "preferred" engine among hot rodders/street rodders seems to be a 350 sb Chevy.

[Bumpster]

My Cobra reflects my opinion that Ford engines should go in Ford cars, whether they are original cars or replicas, and that includes everything from T-buckets to Deuces to Cobras. Anybody who knows anything about the history of the Cobra knows that they came with Ford engines. By the way, Shelby first approached Donald Healey for Austin-Healey bodies and was turned down, for what that's worth. If you're a Chevy fan, why not get a Grand Sport or '53 Corvette or Cheetah replica?

Just my opinion.

Bumpster

[RallySnake]

Wilf,

I have to take exception to one thing you wrote: "There are no significant differences in weight, size, or performance characteristics between a Ford and a Chevy sb." The Ford small block (289/302) is about 2 inches narrower than the Chevy small block and the header pipes angle downwards at a much lower angle. This makes it much easier to fit in a Cobra's engine bay and gives much more room for maintenance. The forward distributor is also much easier to work on. Ford V8's also are designed with longer connecting rods (6.125" VS 5.7") which have a positive effect on power. If the cylinder heads, displacement and compression are the same, the Ford engine will theoretically make more power.

Those are the best reasons to use the Ford engine. If my "replica" Ford engine ever breaks, I will build one.

Paul

[Richard Hudgins]

Brent D.

You are correct. The JBL was designed for a Ford engine.

However, everyone thinks that it was the Small Block windsor series.

WRONG!!!

It was really designed for the Ford Cosworth DFL 3.9 liter engine. 540 hp and a really sweet power curve.

Or, for the criminally insane, a DFL Turbo motor (3.9 liters, horsepower dependant on boost knob, rumored to be in the 1000 bhp range for qualifying.)

Either of these engines are perfect in the JBL chassis and bolt right in. The threaded inserts are there in every chassis.

The mounts for a Hewland MVE-STA 6 speed to go along with these engines are also included in the chassis.

If you go to the JBL site and look at the 3D chassis drawings, you will see this engine configuration. They have been there since day one.


But it seems that everyone wants a BB and a toploader.

Go figure!!!!

[meangreeny]

Well written Wilf Old Chap. Here is the way I understand Ford power in the British AC beauty. Corrections in my data are welcome.

260 Ford was first
289 Ford was second
427 Ford was last

The rest of us choose later model year Ford Small blocks to stay in line with the Ford/AC relationship, particularely 351windsor, some with 351cleveland motors and the lucky few with 427 big block motors.

Personally, I would never allow my AC to wear a dress, unless of course it was one of the original British ones.

dq

[Bob In Ct]

I'll bet a Chevy powerplant will really add to the resale value!

Bob