Letter to CA DMV

[Turk]

"Rich People".

Some people have no hestation to attack
"rich people" even on a thread where they are trying to get something done.
Allen, You ARE rich aren't you? After all you own a Cobra.

WTF does this have anything to do with anyone's bank balance.
Some RICH PEOPLE buy these things and just have them sit in their collection and not register them or drive them. They just collect them.

bruce, sometimes your pointed posts come across as only to irritate and agitate. Not to educate, entertain, or share in he fun.

TURK

[cobrap51d]

Turk, I work for the State of California. You know I'm not rich. It’s a matter of priorities. And the Cobra is nowhere near the top. I was driving my car the other day and I realized if my engine were to go away on me I’d have to sell it as a roller. It’s worth a lot in California considering it’s licensed.

[RedBarchetta]

Originally posted by cobrap51d


....I realized if my engine were to go away on me I’d have to sell it as a roller. It’s worth a lot in California considering it’s licensed.

No on the first line. Just like me, you'd go to your local Pick-A-Part, find some 302 out of a late model Mustang, swap manifold and accessories, and be back on the road for under $1K.

You are 100% correct on the second point. I truly believe that, at this exact juncture in the market (faulty registrations being pulled), any Cobra with the appropriate SB100 certification is worth more than one without. How much more? Hard to say, but I'd put at least a $2-4K premium on cars with similar characteristics, maybe more if someone wants to avoid the mess that will undoubtedly occur in '05. My two cents....

[cobrap51d]

Originally posted by RedBarchetta


No on the first line. Just like me, you'd go to your local Pick-A-Part, find some 302 out of a late model Mustang, swap manifold and accessories, and be back on the road for under $1K.

RedBarchetta,

Good answer. That's great. I should do that just in case.

[hodgey]

This effort is going to create problems and it brings even more attention to
it that we don't need. What is the purpose of this if your car is already
licensed and registered?

[PatBuckley]

The purpose is to get this dumb law changed so that more people can legally register their hot-rods.

500 exemptions a year is ridiclulous in a state with as many hot rods as California has.

I know Allen, and even though his car is legally registered, he is taking the time and making the effort to change things so that others get the benefit.

Pretty altruistic I would say.

Why do you think this will make things worse?

Pat Buckley

[Edley Rondinone]

Originally posted by hodgey


This effort is going to create problems and it brings even more attention to
it that we don't need. What is the purpose of this if your car is already
licensed and registered?

Since DMV is now checking recent applicants for proper registration, they MAY get the wild idea that MOST, if not just the few that they have already snagged, "kit car" and "hot rod" registrations may have been done not quite up to snuff.

State of California is under a HUGE budget shortfall. They must figure that if there is money to be found by "fine-tooth-combing" these special construction vehicles, then by gosh they're gonna start looking for those missing funds.

What State of California doesnt seem to realize is that:
1. Most hot rods and special construction SPCN (Cobras and custom bikes) vehicles are finely-tuned, well-maintained machines, thus putting out minimal amounts of smog-producing exhausts due to poorly running engines.
2. The amount of sales tax that would be generated by residents of California for ALL their hot rod and SPCN vehicles, in kit sales, engine parts, registration fees, etc, is a HUGE amount.
3. The automotive aftermarket is a multi-BILLION dollar industry; a lot of that is, or was, based in California, providing JOBS, more tax money (sales, income, gas, etc).
4. The happier the residents of California are, the longer they stay, producing more of everything, mainly MONEY, and MONEY makes politicians happy.

[cobrap51d]

People are being arrested and companies are being shut down. As most of you know the CHP showed up at some of our homes on a Sunday morning to examine our cars, paperwork and documents related to registration and/or purchase of our vehicles. Just for your information they did have search warrants. I just wanted to make that point clear. The point was not to bash the CHP. They do a fine job for us here in California.

At some point DMV started issuing refusal of registrations. (I’m not sure if that is the official name, but that’s the idea). I’m not clear yet on why some of us have to sell our cars out of state but they are no longer legal on the roads of California. I believe the owners that are required to sell their cars are ones that bought turnkey cars from builders. The builders are the companies that DMV will eventually shut down with their actions, along with a lot of peripheral businesses.

The Cobras were only the first ones because it was easy for the DMV to recognize our cars based on a common VIN number pattern. I don’t know where they are going next but it seems to me like they have to go after everybody. They can’t just pick on Cobra owners.

I’ve heard there are approximately 70,000 vehicles on the road today that DMV will need to process. Can you imagine the man-hours it will take to process all these vehicles? It took over a year to get Weaver through the system and I don’t think they are done with him yet. “Will it take 70,000 years to process the remaining vehicles (joking)”?

The vehicles that were processed this year had to use SPCN numbers from the general pool. Due to the DMV use of SPCN number to rectify past mistakes it’s now IMPOSSIBLE for a hobbyist to purchase a Factory Five, Superformance, Kirham, Shell Valley or any other Kit car on the market. The companies that support this market will also feel this in the near future.

This issue needs to be viewed with more clarity. I don’t think the DMV has enough time and money to process all the people. It’s a huge and costly undertaking.

If DMV were to offer immunity to the 70,000 vehicles currently in question it would generate a large amount of revenue. I’ve heard the revenue from this offering could generate from $25Million to $1Billion. I know that’s a wide range, but I’ve talked to a lot of people and the range is quite large. From the people I’ve talked to I believe the range is from $500Million to $1Billion.

I contacted the lobbyist group Advocation Inc. in Washington DC (SEMA) to see what their thoughts were on this. According to Mr. McDonald he was to busy at this time and he handed me off to Chris Cole in Sacramento. Chris informed me he would be getting back with me soon. I’ve left numerous messages with Chris but he doesn’t return my calls.

I also left a message with the Senior Vice president of “Good Guys”, to get their view on it. No calls as of yet.

I have a call into research specialist employed by a Senator here in town. No word as of yet.

I emailed the California Performance Review with some details and a suggested solution. Nothing back at this time.

I emailed Chon Guiterriz DMV/CPR and have not received a reply.

I work on this almost every day. So, I’m sure I’ve missed some details. It’s amazing to me how much time an individual can spend on something like this and not get very far. You can bet if a celebrity were to create as much of a stink over this as I have that they would at least have heard back from some of the people. SEMA is the one that has disappointed me the most. Maybe calling their Lobby group is the wrong approach?

I’m tired off to bed. Any ideas are welcome.

Allen Lung
916-505-7784

[Bill Kesner]

Allen......

Keep pushing ahead! I spent the last 6-months falling on deaf ears with everyone I came in contact with. The only person I did not write to was Arnold. I was issued a "Notice of Refusal" from the DMV because it was a turn-key built by Shelby, and finalized by one of their dealers. Two separate companies involved, and they refused to allow the registration of my vehicle within this state.

The last person I spoke with from Chon's department advised me to look into filing a lawsuit against the state with as many supporters as possible to change the law. Pretty sad when it has to come to this, as this could take several years and lots of cash along the way.

You have my full support, and would gladly join you in any effort or ideas you may have at this point to give the DMV an immediate wake up call, and place all the attention and focus on California's current laws. They are out of date, out of touch, and are set up to drive away revenues in a state that is looking for ways to add more revenues to their budget.

The issue that really makes no sense to me, is that I can take my vehicle and register it in the other 49 states without the hassles this state has put forward. They truly need to wake up, and get with the rest of the country. At their continued direction and pace, they will drive many car enthusiasts out of California. Reminds me of the old business story as to how companies spend money and try to encourage customers to try their product..though forget the customer once their onboard. The customers becomes disastified with some troubled experiences, and eventualy leave. Then they spend millions trying to get the customers back. Point is they have thousands of customers now but not for long, so what they do or don't do will directly affect the CA DMV and the state in a big way. I hope their listening clearly, and with both eyes wide open!

Drop me an email if I can help in any way!

Bill Kesner
CSX4141

[What'saCobra?]

Keep your daubers up, good guys.

It is a lot of what we would consider unnecessary grief and we understand how disenheartening it can be to try and move 500# of jello, particularly when it is armed.

You have our bestest wishes, because no one here fails to realize that how goes CA on this subject, so goes their own state in the future.

The issue of SMOG is both real and ephemeral when compared to the potential cash CA could collect if they listen and use their blessed noggins. Few of us use our rods more than a few thousand miles a year and use WOT less than 10% of the time. Most miles are covered at just above idle, doing the profile...

Somebody needs to get to Arnie...

Talk Money...

Freedom...

Great rides...

Catching bims...

Great pals, the brothers...

More money...

[Ron61]

Allen,

Is there any way that a meeting between the head of the DMV and other politicians in Sacramento and the Car crowd be arranged where we could all sit down and air our views/complaints in an orderly fashion? I have talked to the few that I still know down there over the past year and it is not looking at all good. SEMA seems more interested in Street Rods and other states and until a few 32 Fords are jerked off the roads they will seemingly not get very involved in the mess here. What happens here is going to happen in other states and also we need all the equipment manafacturers to be represented. As you have stated, if this state would let the hundreds/ thousands of cars that they now consider illegally registered have immunity and register legally and do away with the ridiculous 500 per year number, they would have a windfall of money come in. Also much could be done to make it easier to register a kit/SPCN car. And they seem to think all of these cars are driven what they consider the national average of 10 -15 thousand miles per year. I realize this would take time and couldn't ba a 30 minute meeting, but it is something that maybe could be considered. This should also include all street rodders as they are going the same way if this insanity isn't stopped. And the statement that getting these cars off the road because of the smog they cause is ludricious. Especially when they turn right around and sell some company like Kanuf the right to dump more polluntant into the air because we have elimated cars which put out 1/8th that much.

Ron

[Lowell W]

Sorry, I don't have anything constructive to add; just a few thoughts...

It's so sad that California, once the Mecca for freedom and hot rods and seemingly such a wonderful, spectacular place to live to us flatlander types apparently has become such a car-unfriendly, un-free, litigious, crime-ridden state of rigid bureaucracy. I don't say this to start a fight or wave a red flag in front of anyone, but because I remember visiting cousins there in the 1960's and friends there in the 1970's and thinking this must be about as close as possible to Heaven on earth. I'd describe my feeling now as being similar to how you'd feel seeing your favorite state park run down from neglect and littered with trash (both types).

In the event that common sense does prevail in this situation, the idea of some sort of a conditional amnesty seems to make the most sense. If California offered non-compliant vehicle owners a finite time period in which to initiate registration of the vehicles in question, with a provision that they retroactively pay all applicable taxes and fees to bring the vehicle up to date, it seems to me that this would be a great opportunity to raise much-needed revenue and send an encouraging message to what has to be a large California industry. As pointed out above, while perhaps few (heck, probably NONE) of these vehicles are economy- and smog-compliant, their toal numbers are relatively small and most of them are driven very few miles.

When I first investigated registering my car it seemed like SUCH a hassle, and so expensive that I did consider using some sort of alternative titling scheme. My big concern at that time was that the state wouldn't be so worried about what I called this car as about the fact that I didn't pay the sales tax, and how could I call this thing a "1965 Ford Convertible" and then tell them how much I paid for the car, motor, etc? That would be sure to raise a flag. Then there's also the matter of insurance: If I ever were involved in an accident, the insurance company would love to be able to point out that the car I was driving was not the same car as on the insurance policy. "Sorry, Dude..." So I decided to go legit. This was not without its own set of problems, however, as the MVD lost my paperwork, then the "Guy who handles those registrations" retired and was replaced by a "New Guy", and on and on. Three months later, they found all the stuff, called me to make an appointment for the inspector to COME TO MY HOUSE!, inspected the car, issued the title and registration and I was on my way. Fortunately, this all happened between December and March so, while frustrating, didn't keep me off the road. Oh yeah: A few months later, I received a notice from the state, informing me I owed back tax interest and a penalty, since I bought the car in December (when I sent them the paperwork AND THE CHECK), but didn't pay the sales tax until March, when they cashed the check THEY HAD MISPLACED FOR FOUR MONTHS!!! After I recovered from my initial rage attack, I politely informed them of their error and sent them copies of the applicable documents and never heard from them again. They did call the car one thing the first year and something else the second year...

OK, I'll step down now. I sure hope you folks in California get all this straightened out and the situation gets better, not worse.

Thanks for listening,

Lowell

[cobrap51d]

Thanks Ron and Lowell,

SEMA should be concerned. When DMV starts going after the 1930 Fords is going to get nasty. Cobras are the minority when it comes to car registration in California. There currently more 1930's Fords on the roads in California than ford ever built.

Lowell I think we can almost bet that a solution will come and it will look similar to what you outlined. It's just a matter of time. If we keep making noise somebody will have to notice and at least attempt to help us out.

There is a Legislator out there somewhere that wants publicity. ABC is interviewing me on the 7th and I want to mention the group that is trying to help us out. I'd also like to say that there is a discussion going on with DMV to look at the issue. For now all I can say is "People are being arrested and Businesses are being shut down. DMV is kicking the Hot Rod industry out of CA."

I don't think DMV is intentionally kicking the hot rod industry out of California. I'm not sure DMV is aware of all the issues. It might be stupid of me to think that way but I can't imagine they would want to shut down such a large industry.

This issue may be more of a California Air Resources Board issue. ARB does a great job at attempting to keep our air clean. I use to work for ARB supporting a group of Scientists communications equipment. I'm sure they would know how to factor in additional facts like the mileage the cars are driven. They would also think it was an incredible value for the State to have such vehicles on the road.

Maybe at some point we need to all meet on the Capitols steps. Having 200 cobras circle the capitol would get some attention. I’m not sure how I really feel about that type of an approach. It’s a little antagonistic.

Any ideas ?

[Ron61]

Allen,

The Calif. DMV and Air rersources Board have people that watch all the car sites and they are well aware of what is going on. It is mostly the typical political crap. We made a mistake but will lose millions before we will admit it. As for getting an answer via e-mail or a returned phone call from any of the gang in Sacramento that is almost impossible. When you have your ABC interview, try to point out the lost revenue the state is throwing away because of their refusal to admit these cars don't contribute a major amout of the pollution. Logically the only real way to do this is to give blanket immunity to any cars registered under the old ways and collect any taxes and dues that the state has coming and then register them with no limits. With the cars registered correctly, they would take in thousands every year for cars that are hardly driven. But here we have a Paradox. Dealing with politicians and logic. Maybe a mass e-mail campaign from other states to Sacramento pointing out that they have no problems would at least get the attention of some of the news networks and believe me, if there is a TV camera pointed somewhere, these politicians will be in front of it in seconds. I have been dealing with this issue off and on for the past 9 years and talking to people in Sac. that I played racquet ball with. As long as it stays low key with no attention I think we are going to have a long and hard fight. The state will spend a million dollars to take some poor guy's car instead of making it legal for him to register it and collecting many millions. I wish I could offer a good solution to this, but I think we really need a face to face meeting with a bunch of these people all at once to stop the saying one thing and then doing another stuff. If there is any way that I can be of help, let me know.

Ron

[cobrap51d]

Ron,
I think we can point out what we see as the problem and potential solutions. I don’t know exactly why I don’t get calls back. This will all come to a head some day. We need to continue to get a large group of people together to support the hotrod industry in California.

It looks to me like the biggest looser will be the supporters of SEMA. I don’t know who has the answers but we can all do a pretty good job at outlining the problem. I have also seen some good solutions offered!

I just want to know that DMV is attempting to resolve this problem. I don’t understand how they can get all these cars fixed in a cost effective way. It still makes the most sense to me to offer some type of immunity. Obviously DMV thinks other wise.

This is probably a 5 – 7 year project for DMV, more or less. ( I don’t have a clue how long it will take).

[Ron61]

Allen,

One problem that I know for certain is that most of the DMV people just flat don't understand what is going on and how to deal with it. Therefore the easy way is to get rid of any car or vehicle that we don't understand how to register. Even a lot of the DMV people that I have talked with can't take the memo that was issued telling them step by step how to do SB-100 cars and understand it. To them, a replica is not a real car and therefore shouldn't be allowed on the roads. A lot of that blame belongs at the top echelon of the Calif. DMV as it is easier to cry about the pollution and all these cars put out than it is to train their people how to register them legally. If they would take one year and give a blanket immunity to all people with gray area cars, they would collect a huge amount of money. But getting past the Hollywood stereotyped all hot rods are bad is going to be hard to do. SEMA is setting on the idea it is in Calif. and we don't need to worry. By the time they wake up to the fact this is just the start and it will spread to other states it will be to late for them to do anything. I have ran up huge phone bills and sent e-mails by the dozen and rarely do I ever get a reply and if I do, it is normally some flunky telling me that I am complaining about nothing.

Ron

[Randy Rosenberg]

Here's a crazy idea...

The GoodGuys holds Hot-Rod shows with great frequency around the US. Here's a link to their events schedule: http://www.good-guys.com/events/events.asp

How about we raise some $$$ to buy a booth at these shows and staff it with people who can inform the public (those who attend these shows) about this problem with the DMV? Maybe create some kinda petition for people to sign?

I agree that we need to generate publicity - to make this not a "Cobra Only" problem.

Even if the "booth" idea is not do-able, then how about flyers on the subject that we can drop into each Hot Rod and hand out???

Any just a crazy idea...

Regards,
Randy R...

P.S. Check it out. The Good-Guys are giving away a "turn-key" custom built Boydster, "The Winner will be given the prize (the keys and title to the Boydster III)..." How do they get a CA Legal Title for a "built for resale" Custom Hot Rod? See section #9 in this link: http://www.good-guys.com/giveawayrules.asp

[tonysshelbys]

To Allen, Ron and all others who have posted on this thread:
No offense intended but I believe you are all missing the point:
That is SB 100 IS AN ESTABLISHED LAW currently on the books in California limiting exempt vehicles to 500. DMV and CARB are going to take the tack that there is nothing they can do, even if they wanted to because EXISTING LAW limits the amount of vehicles each year to 500. The only way we're going to get immunity for all the other folks (and I know someone who is a very, very good friend of mine who had TWO registrations pulled for his CSX cars) is to find someone currently in the California Leg. to amend SB100 on "an emergency, one time basis" to grant unlimited reg. with payment of back taxes and fees. Even then, you're going to find tree hugger legislators who will fight this tooth and nail. Remember, until Johnassen amended his bill to limit the number to 500 instead of unlimited, CARB fought it fiercely and Gov. Davis refused to sign it until he limited the number to 500. I will write my local legislator a long letter outlining the problem and I will be in Sacramento during the week of May 10th and I will pay a visit to his office and try to get his staff interested in carrying a bill to accomplish what I outlined above.
Tony Sousa
tonysshelbys

[cobrap51d]

Ron,
I agree with some of what you have to say. We will never get the attention we need if we continue to bash DMV. Do you think DMV would want to meet with us if we were going to call them flunkies? Maybe you have already given up. I haven’t!

If we can't get the attention through the channels at DMV then we can take the next steps. I still think this is a worthwhile cause. Until somebody convinces me that I’m wrong I will continue.

Send a nice letter to the DMV communicating the problem and a solution. If we have enough people communicating the same word (because they believe it) we will get the visibility we need.

I’m beginning to think immunity is all we need so we can have the 500 sb-100’s a year. Next year all the sb-100’s will be gone in the first months and then we will see some bitterness. At that point SEMA may want to get involved.

[Ron61]

Allen,

My post wasn't clear. It wasn't the DMV people that I was referring to when I said Flunkies. It was three of our good Senator's so called Aides who were somewhat arrogant and basically told me they didn't care to hear from anyone that wasn't backing whatever that Senator was backing at the time. And no, I haven't given up and won't until they make it illegal to have free speech in this state.

Tony, you have some good ideas and have stated one thing for sure. They will and can use SB-100 as an established law until they can get the bill past that will basically do away with it. If they would amend it and just do away with the limited number of cars that can be registered that would solve a lot of problems. But we are still going to have to get this in the one place that politicians can compherend. In the news and in front of voters so they have to come out and make a public stand one way or another. Couldn't your frined get one of the 100 numbers they reserved this year for just that purpose?

Ron