Seeking an AC 289

[TWM]

The cobra book written by Brian Laban has a couple of pictures of the AC 289 - very cool car! If I remember correctly, the car pictured had minilite wheels.

The book was first published in the UK about 10-12 years ago. I haven't seen it on book store shelves for a long time. If you want the publisher info, I'll dig it out tonight.

TWM

[Nedsel]

Problem is, the Mk.IV uses wide-hip rear body styling, typical of most 427 street Cobras. The narrow-hip design which was common the the AC MK III as well as a run of roughly 25 427 Cobras (between VIN's 3123-3158) appears to be a "lost" design. Good luck finding it!

[Phil Erikson]

Good point, Ned.
If one is to use the 6x15 wire wheels and 185x15 tires (as the Mk.IIIs did) the rears, especially, would look lost in those wide rear fenders.

Phil

[Trevor Legate]

True - Brian Labans book has a couple of pictures of the AC289. In a totally unbiased observation - my books had 17 pics plus a reproduction of the full 'Motor' road test of the AC289 Sports of October 14th 1967.

True - the 289 did feature the narrower rear-end, which is why they look so much more attractive (to me and a few others). Of the 25 complete cars built, 3 were shipped to the USA. The AC demonstrator, registered KPD150C , was originally Guardsman Blue, but some utter cad later painted it black and shoved a 427 into it, thereby ruining it forever. (I'm still having therapy....)

[What'saCobra?]

Trev
Greetings and salubrious salutations!

It's true. Brian did build several, not just a few 427MKIII & MKII Cobras that are accurate clones of the originals. Some were used to slide under the original CSX titles, so they can't be easily found, since the later actual serial numbers were not ever used. That is not to assure, however, that they will never be used, since they are valid and could be used on an even more newly fabricated car needing an early ninties manufacturing date...mmmm...Ned?

Also, a few were made and sold with the normal and continued sequence of CSX serialization and are about, but also not easy to find. Certainly they are not all in England or on the Continent. They don't make the "normal" entry route into the SAAC logs, but some others appear in the sidebar articles like stepchildren from marriages rather not remembered.

But, for instance, those gliders sent to Wagner were completed in such fine fettle as to merit a special class of their own, in my view. They are beautiful. They are faster than striped apes. They are not Shelby's. So what?

Of course, some of these owners find this estranged treatment of their toys pretty snooty and have perhaps decided not to bother to clear things up and let others know about the stories. Perhaps it is too much to print? Perhaps the SAAC owners have in the past such a vested interest in their personal "Shelbys" that they are paniced at the thought that somehow they might not make quite so much on their eventual resale or status? What do I know?

The cars will outlast us all and the future will not be so picky about the continuation cars. After all, given the philosophy of the past, how can we understand and catagorize Shelby's lastest creations?

The original race cars, however, will stand tall. Taller than some of their drivers and most of their owners.

Meanwhile, of course, there are identical CSX numbers of SOME of these, as they were also used/manufactured by McClusky/Shelby et al during that Japanese scam when they tried to misrepresent the chassis as originaly from AC; whereafter Brian had a coniption and we were treated to the war of words we all enjoyed.

However, the REAL 427 Cobras (70's, 80's & 90's) from AC have their papers correct and I am guessing several of you top level dudes have copies of the Great AC Cars, Ltd. Book pages that ID the authenticity. Even we have a few, she said.

Phil
Yup, the narrow hipped cars were sweet and I never did understand why that short run of them was placed into the regular sequence in the original years. In the day, of course, they were given great disrespect, as they couldn't take bigger tires/wheels so easily, sort of like being a 428 at the time...who wants one?

It is true that the MKIV is a little wider than the 289Sports, but not wacky and nice ones sell here in the USofA for the low 40K dollars complete with titles, knock-off wheels, great brakes, big torque axles and shafts and only awaiting stroker kits and alloy heads to be turned into fire-breathing small block monsters.

Everything on the car is set up for bigger power and the conversion is easy, as above mentioned. Alloy heads and even blocks/trans can make them a wonderful driver. And very, very quicker. An extra 150 ponies does wonders for any car, but especially these.

The dash can be swapped into the MKII/III (your choice) visuals and all the instruments are easily available. There are some very nice ceramic big tube and low back-pressure catalytic reactors now available that can keep it as clean as you like.

They do need to lose a few pounds of fat though, but that is also a tap, depending on your state and your personal skills with a cutoff tool/torch/saw/etc.

Those alloy bodies are out there guys and the owners are pretty bored with 225 horsepower lead sleds. They are getting tired of being zapped by rice burners with 5" diameter muffler exits. The fit and finish of MKIV's are amongst the best ever done, as Brian did not ship a car less than 100% Shinola.

His color ethics, admittedly, very occasionally left something to be desired. We can be sure he and Paula laughed like hades as the new owner ooed and ahhed about that particular shade of brown.

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that someday you will not be easily able to find an original looking MKIV, as they will all have been converted into a sort of MKIII Special. They are that good and someone is going to do it.

I am not sure how much plainer I can express it. Now is the time. Hock the kids, dump the Excursion, forget Princeton and go for it.

MKIV
Thanks for your thoughts on that MKIV imposter. As usual, your specifics are always new and entertaining.

Meanwhile, this space is OURS!

[What'saCobra?]

PS:

Trev

That silver color you like is called Jaguar New Tungsten. I just looked at the data plate.

It is fantastic.

[Trevor Legate]

Whatsa...

Salutations also. Glad to see the postings flying in fast and thick.

The final batch of Angliss-427s of which you speak are those listed on page 309 of the current SAAC registry under the heading of AC COX Continuation Cars. I met David Wagner and a couple of the cars (from chassis number COX6133 on) at Charlotte and they really are rather special. Essentially they were all built to be completed to 427S/C specs. AC Autokraft managed to get 16 out the door before the shutters came down in '96. Would love to know where they all are. (One went to Finland, north of the UK where it snows a lot) As always, should've brought one as the last 7 were knocked out for a bargain price whilst the receivers were circling their wagons outside. Another wasted opportunity.....

I'll pass on the opportunity to comment on the Shelby/Angliss/Japan/ooh look I've just found some chassis scenario if you don't mind.

Glad you enjoy the Jag silver paint scheme. Feel free to send me a photo. One of the best MkIV paint jobs I have witnessed was an odd one - Porsche Zinc Metallic. Different but effective. I was driving past a Rover (!) dealership in dear old Dorking in Surrey back then and they had one sitting in the middle of their showroom!! Who knows why? Always remember that - I nearly crashed as I was not exactly watching the road.

Serously, now that Shelby has welcomed AC to his bosom and they are all one big happy family, it must be OK to come out of hiding and say that the 427s and 289MkIIs that were built by AC Autokraft up to '96 (outside the run of MkIVs) are amongst the best Cobras made since production ended in 1968 - which brings us back to the AC289 Sports which was the last of the Cobras and was in production for 2 years after Shelby American dropped the model.

Hey - just thought of a new career move for Brian Angliss - set up a company that converts MkIVs to MkIII specs with the proper 375bhp motors. Who knows where that might lead..........?

[Mark IV]

....remember Brian showing me a picture of a pink metallic car he built, I think for a Saudi.....anything for a buck!

He told some very entertaining stories of customers and some of the requests they made, some got a price quote reply, some got a "I don't think we will be doing that" answer.

I had a customer order a MK IV in BMW Anthracite metallic, a dark gray metallic color with all brightwork done in black. Angliss told me of how Brian Burford, the works manager, dis-assembled the hood locks for black plating and had a hard time re-assembling them! The car was not to my tastes and the guy who ordered it never replied to my call after it arrived....he walked away from a $10,000.00 deposit. It took a year for me to sell it, I had considered ordering all the brightwork to install as I thought it would have been a stunning car in the color with the chrome/stainless on it. Another car that didn't sound good but was nice in person was a car in Mercedes Dunkelblau (dark blue non-metallic) with magnolia leather. I delivered it to the buyer in Queens, New York when the New York Auto Show was on, he invited me to attend with him and what did we find? A Ferrari Mondial Cab on the stand in the same color scheme! BTW, this customer never drove his car, he paid me to fly to New York 10 years later to appraise it for a potential buyer...it had 2 miles more on the clock than when I delivered it!

I guess short of the factory guys, I have driven more different MK IVs than most as I test drove every car we sold myself after Jim, our designated AC tech had prepped it.

Brian also told of sending a car to Saudi Arabia and having it turned away at customs when they spotted the Ford logos on the engine....Ford was a banned, blacklisted company in the Arab league at the time as they did business with Israel. Brian's solution was to ship the car back to Weybridge, grind off all the Ford castings and paint the motor Chevy orange....re-sent to Saudi and the wogs let it right through as it had a "Chevy" motor!

Rick

[What'saCobra?]

Indeed. There is no sensible reason for you to comment on the old Shel deal, since you still need access to the good gentleman, who still gets my undying respects for both his driving, his hutz, his cajonnes, his concept and his desire to remain up at homeplate, still swinging.

Yup, that Porche Zink really looks good on the fender curves and a bit of bright lights. And it is odd that you can find a Cobra in the strangest places sometimes. When you find one, you have to grab it, because they get less and less available.

By the way, that Finnish car is currently in Jolly Olde, near Norwitch. If you would like to see it and its pewter-like unpainted but clear-coated glory, it can be arranged some dark night. It awaits an all alloy punched out 427 mill and the new Tremmec 600.

Someday we will look back on this as one of the most interesting periods of the car's historical development. There are so many absolutely stunning new cars being completed at such a high specification they are competing for honors with the originals in both performance and beauty. You know I love 'em all and have enormous respect for most of the current kit vendors and completion technicians.

We went through a patch of pretty shabby cars for a while and it's true that even today some are not really so nice, but most are fine rides, great optics and snap my neck when they motor by. The best of them have remarkable engineering and creative depth, perhaps led by the Kirkham family.

Those two professor-providers of Provo pulchritude and putative pedagogical productivity are simply amazing and display a fervor for their objet d'art that has revolutionized the market perspective of all subsequent Cobras. They have set standards so high that the original cars pale in comparison, unless they are re-manufactured to what I now call "Provo Standards."

Perhaps this point, more than any other, has prodded olde 'Shel to try another deal with the current shark-infested AC waters. But, Lubby is a lightweight in these depths and will find himself naked and shivvering after what I hope will be a great run of wonderful cars. I wish them all great success, because this all adds to the romance, mystery and public awareness. Such intrigues! Such cars!

Of course, a few right thinking owners of original cars have kept their cars truly original...like Tom DuPont, down here in Tampa for instance...but, they are in the very minority. Most have been refinished into gem-like brilliance, which some feel they deserve. Who'se to argue? They are beautiful, perhaps a little like Playboy Bunnies, but still original under that 2-pack. But, so very rarely driven. Hangar queens? Money corrupts.

One of the better pleasures of my life has been my playing with these babes for over 40 years. Can you believe? They still get my heart pounding, even when they just pass by.

We have our fair share of Cobras of every mettle here in Florida, of course. Sometimes it is a big of a car show on Friday or Saturday nights. High summer temps and frequent slow and dopy traffic test our cooling systems and sandy/oily corners still test our car control. Olde Fharrts still turn sharp right from the far left lane and try to test my concentration, global awareness and control response all at the same time.

About that, I have a theory. Some of these old geezers and 90# soaking-wet shrimpy Merk 600 drivers are not experiencing driver-skill challenges because of their now quite advanced age. Oh, no. Age has nothing to do with it. Those suckers NEVER COULD drive the 6-cylinder Plymouth in 1949 properly, so why should we expect them to be paying proper attention 50+ years later driving a 2.6 ton V-12 powered supercar, out of which they cannot see?

Unfortunately, most of our current crop of Cobra owners can't drive quickly for squat either, but they don't have enough training and at-the-limit seat time, so how can they otherwise learn? Few bother to spend the additional few thousand on driver courses here at our local tracks.

For instance, Skip Barber still runs a fantastic course over at Sebring that is as good as they come. Those driving skills would be very appropriate to well engineered Cobras on the street and driven rationally. Not enough guys enter the very few local gymkanas and learn high-powered, low speed manuvering at the limits of adhesion, which typify Cobra street driving. They are missing all the good testing and upgrading skills and equipment revisions that flow from those exercises. And the fun!

You are not really enjoying it, y'know, unless you break something from time to time, which you can now improve and upgrade. i suppose that attitude flows from the engineer still in me after all these years. Performance is still king in cars, music and sex.

(Soapbox now returned to closet.)

[Trevor Legate]

MkIV

Ahh yes, the curse of the Pink Cobra. I encountered no less than two such aberations at the national Kit Car show last Sunday. Best viewed before lunch, but who am I to comment on matters of 'taste'?

Whatsa

Oh yes, much respect for Mr.S. Oh to be half as switched on when I reach his years (approaching with increasing rapidity ) When you look back at his career, you have to wonder - mainly why have I not achieved 10% of what he's done!

Interested in the fact that the 'Finnish' car is back in Blighty. That's NORWICH by the way, but methinks a slip of the old keyboard?? I look forward to a visit one dark and stormy night. I'll bring a lantern and wait for a good sea mist to roll in.....such dark mysteries! The fun of Cobra hunting!

Yep - the Shelby/Lubby marriage will prove interesting. I just hope they shut up and get on with building and selling cars - that way lies success and profit for all. It aint rocket science. I think they should start making AC289 Sports (he said, trying desperately to get this thing back onto the original thread...)

[Mark IV]

persist in believing that BOTH 'ol Shel and Lubby each think they are getting the better of the other.....

Sorta like two porcupines mating.........

Time will tell...................


Rick

[What'saCobra?]

i love the pocupine imagery, Rick, mostly because it is true.

Trevor
Norwich it is indeed.

i wonder if the Kirkhams would consider a line of Legate Specials, that is, a smallblock special like the AC289 Sports, but in a lightweight specification, as we all (4 of us?) know and love. Special hugable shaped butt. They are the only people that could pull this off right.

You know, Trev, that the Lightweights are pulling a premium today on the Brit market. They are more drivable and svelte to the hand. They are more intelligent to the knowing driver and the true sportsman that uses a 410 Purdy rather than a 10 ga. Winchester. And they are bloody quick, aye?

We all know the smallblocks are anything but small today and a really good one exceeds the torque limits on all the Tremmecs except the latest 600.

Everything alloy. Stainless chassis? Just powder coated steel? CV joints. Alloy Kee toploaders. Alloy Kirkman axle. 302/351 options, punched out to 347 for 7000 rpm redline, 392/427 for 6500. Race/sports packages. Glass body option? Skip the BB problems, weight, springs, CG and cash drain.

Sounds very good to me and i will bet the market would move to meet it. i would order one. Hello, David? Warm up the digital tracer in Polska, please.

(Jeepers, i just remembered David asked for some pictures of this mini-power BMW brake system mod on AKL.)

But, slightly modifying a MKIV still is a wonderful budget entry to a real Cobra for some fellows, isn't it?

Say goodnight, Gracie.

Goodnight!

[Trevor Legate]

Hey - the Legate Special sounds pretty good to me. How could I not order one? Or do I get a gift of the first off the Kirkham line in recognition of services rendered? (Cheers David, guardsman blue will do just fine)

As you say, it would need the Kirkhams to do it, 'cos it has to be done right. Say no more....

Much as I admire and appreciate the full-blown 427 Cobras, I have always viewed them, as you point out, as the 10-gauge Winchester. Not my cup of tea, old chap, but undoubtedly effective.

In a land of Silly Fuel Prices, (and going up again next week, thank you very much) a 427 returning 8 mpg makes no sense at all. Even your average multi-millionaire would think twice. I am off to the Croft circuit in darkest Lincolnshire to photograph a private Cobra test and at 8mpg, the round trip would cost me approx. $698, whereas in my dull dull dull Eurobox, it will be $100 (and would cost about one-fifth of that in your fair continent). Hence most (but not all) 427s over here are trailer queens or garage decoration.

It will be interesting to see how much the two AC289s fetch in Monaco next weekend. I had planned to go, but other things get in the way as always. (Watch this space)

Goonight George

[Mark IV]

...you are most correct in that the balance of the MK III chassis with a small block is outstanding. The last car I had was a "Superblower" (I know, a REALLY stupid name for a car, Lubby liked it, go figure!) with a supercharged 5.0 in a chassis with front and rear sway bars, outstandingly tossable and fun. I have driven MK IVs with around 325 BHP that were quite fast, maybe not 427 fast but d@mn quick none the less.

As I see it, the difference between Shelby and Lubinsky is that Shelby is a "Promoter" who may sell some snake oil, Lubby is a crook, out and out. Whatsacobra knows some of the stories involving him. Should you shake hands with him, count your fingers after....

Rick

[What'saCobra?]

Rick
We (either i have a mouse in my pocket, have been elevated to the Popemobile or drive the only driver-ed dual steering Cobra in the world) have been street driving a 91 Lightweight since new, equipped in 95 with a breathed-upon 351 crate. It is the sweetest driver ever and has gobs and gobs of poop. It weighs 2290# in street trim, half-fueled, with bumpers all up proper, but the roof erector set (still perfect and unused all these years) and spare stay shelved.

Shy about such details, i just want to underline the clear preference i have for a proper street driver over the blunderbus approach to nirvana... i know a 50cal macine gun is fun, especially out on the high Chaparral desert, but when it comes to removing the command structure, i would prefer a single shot 50cal, at night, with a really big "special" scope.

The nice thing about Cobras is how many variations are possible within the visual envelope, each having its own strongly idiosyncratic virtues without becoming monomanaticly typical as schizotypal personality signatures. [Whew!]

Translation: Cobras, like people, come in many flavors. There is no best or worst, they're all good, just different and widely varying degrees of goodness. It's a big bell curve out there fellas.

Of course, the young and yet much experienced can only get their notions from mass media or singular experiences, so they lemming into big blocks. No problem. Maturity, increased earnings, experience and discretion all create knowledge that allows for increased awareness of other ways to skin the cat.

No problem, BB's are forever also. But, there is room on the planet (and this forum) for more variation of reptilian life forms. Not every Cobra is a King Cobra.

Trevor Dear,
i can get 18mpg if i balloon-foot around in the Tremmec's 5th gear (3550HD). Not all shabby, say wot?

Are you serious? Does it really cost that much for 4 star in Jolly Olde? What's the liter price? I haven't been there for a few years, but that is awful. That means the drive to Monaco return would be nearly $1000+??? GAAAAGGGG!

Must be more confiscatory taxes, because it is certainly not the price of oil. The taxes must be percentage based and not pennies per, which will ALWAYS create economic dislocation when the oil price indexes upwards.

"AC"
Too bad Lubby-Doo screwed himself out of the British Type Certificate by only buying the assets of AC Cars, Ltd. and not the whole company, as advised by me through PW. Once they lost the Brit. std, the German TUF was also forever lost and FORD had good enough reasons to withdraw the name, since the original company was deep-sixed forever. They should have listened to Brian, but they never even ASKED him...idioten.

„Worin liegt der Sinn einer Gesellschaft, die immer reicher wird, aber niemanden glücklicher macht?“ – Stoffer

Or if not luckier, at least smarter?

But, the Kirkhams Reign, mon amis mate (with respects, of course.) You still have great kit rules, better than ours. Safer, easier and quicker. But, if you have been following the Titles Unlimited story in CA, not cheaper. (At least in the short run. But, of course, in the long run we are all dead.)

Gotta go, Ciao Grosser Bambino,

[What'saCobra?]

PS, consider that image trumps precision until you are over 50, when endurance and method become king.

[nikbj68]

Originally posted by What'saCobra?




Trevor Dear,
i can get 18mpg if i balloon-foot around in the Tremmec's 5th gear (3550HD). Not all shabby, say wot?

Are you serious? Does it really cost that much for 4 star in Jolly Olde? What's the liter price? I haven't been there for a few years, but that is awful. That means the drive to Monaco return would be nearly $1000+??? GAAAAGGGG!

Must be more confiscatory taxes, because it is certainly not the price of oil.

Hi What`sa.... `nother Brit jumping into the thread!
4 star (or LRP as they call it now it has no lead in...hence Lead Replacement Petrol ) costs 89p per litre at my nearest fuel station, ($1.60) and regular unleaded is 81p($1.45)
I believe around 83% of the cost IS TAX!!!!!
I can never remember, is a US gallon smaller than imperial(8 pints/4.54litre)?
My dad used to get 8 mpg when racing from his 289 with the 4 twin Webers, back around `68-`69. 1 race would cost me over a week`s wages now!

[What'saCobra?]

You are going to love this, Nik (?) One US gallon equals only 3.7854117 Liters.

Ergo, one US gallon would cost (3.7854117) x ($1.60) or just over $6.00....per gallon!!!!!

Holy jehosephat, that is criminal. A few spots in CA, where the specifications for fuel are quite demanding and that particular chemical mix's supply is frequently short are looking at $2.16 - $2.21.

For heavens sake, you guys are sucking oil out of the north sea at prodigous rates, like the Norwegians. Your costs should not contain that much tax...it is economic rape and the dislocations in transport and wastful spending it will cause may never be repaired...

Good Grief! I don't want to get going on this economic issue here, but this is really really wrong...sounds like the EU is already in defacto charge...kiss your sovereignty goodbye, old chums.

I sure wish it wasn't so, because you cannot reverse course and throw the BrusselBumsprouts out later without resorting to "unauthorized" means.

I'll bet very few democrats here would agree to $6.00 a gallon for their own cars, except for government employees, of course, on the federal dole as "employed" persons.

[nikbj68]

[quote]Originally posted by What'saCobra?


You are going to love this, Nik (?) One US gallon equals only 3.7854117 Liters.

Sorry, could you be a little more precise !
quick calculation here, but does that mean you get 21.5 mpg(imp). nice!
The taxation throughout Europe is a lot less, so maybe that`s one good thing that standardization would bring!
Cheapest fuel I ever bought was in Gibraltar, at 37p per litre. (OK make that recently....I remeber when petrol was sold in gallons and the first gallon I bought was 79p!)
Nik.
p.s. Put me down for a Legate special please, in skyblue pink with green naugehyde(sp?) trim!
Trevor, somewhere above was mentioned mkIV`s for $40k....that`s only about 23 of our English grands !!!!!! I`m wondering if I can use Paypal for that much?!?
HeHeHe. Nik.

[Trevor Legate]

Hi Nik

You beat me the drum-beating, aint-life-a-***** fact that we are truly shafted for 83% tax for every drop of go-juice we consume. As Rick points out - CRIMINAL and a few other words I could use but am far too well-brung-up. Why the hell we put up with is will remain one of life's mysteries. Although the truck drivers over here did stage a small revolt by blocking fuel depots and motorways, to the discomfort of our beloved leaders. Mind you, if you would like to know the price of our racing fuel of some 120-octane (?) you can multiply the above prices by a factor of six. The mind boggles. And, as correctly pointed out, its on a percentage basis, so each increase is factored up something 'orrible. Can I come and live in your country? Assuming I can get through immigration (now there's another topic)

I did base my 8mpg figure on that being returned by the lump in Gerry Hawkridges personal Kirkham 427. A (USA) figure of 18 is quite believable, however - I do not doubt your word.

We are, as a nation, going to be permitted to vote as to whether to join the beloved European Union (gee, thanks Tony) but join or not - we is stuffed on fuel prices. But come the glorious revoultion comrades.........

Yeah Rick - SUPERBLOWER!! What a classic. As someone pointed out, a cross between a garden implement and a sex toy (ah, now I see the appeal...)

OOpps time to go, for now