Another NEW CSX 427

[nikbj68]

[quote]Originally posted by CSX 4027

Originally posted by nikbj68

Steve:...
I don`t think AC have been in the position to "deliver lots of aluminum Cobra's" since about 1967..... They are 'here' to appeal to a (small) number of customers who will pay a premium for an AC built /Shelby partnership Cobra the likes of which hasn`t been made for 38+ years.

I don't agree. If we could all turn back the clock, we would have all bought Cobra's in the 60's for a bunch more than the Corvette and not gotten a top, heater or windows.

We also know that as volume goes up, the price goes down so, a lot of Cobra's produced might end up being more affordable than one might think. Also, affordable aluminum should be the focus. Not Fiberglass!. .........
If Shelby concentrated on only aluminum, I bet they could deliver more cars at good prices and not have to deal with fiberglass at all.
Let's not forget that in 1996, the Shelby glass car finished as a painted roller was in the $50,000 - $55,000 range. A Kirkham PAINTED Roller was $50,000. So, yes. It can be done and already has.

Hi Steve. I agree with ALL that you are saying, I was merely pointing out that with the CSX47** backlog, Shelby should be getting the `glass cars done, which AC can`t help with. (see the "Shelby" thread for anyone who doesn`t know about this!) Plus I don`t think that AC could hit any sort of volume in the way our Polish friends can at the moment.(or match them for price.... labour rates being so different between UK & Poland.)
I work for a huge company(Eaton) and the sign on 'our' desk says "Better,Faster,Leaner". We can`t pick 2!
BrooklandsBasher... you can stay on the bus right to the terminal! As you say, we`re not getting into 'that' issue, but it looks like you & spunky 'Teflon Trev' are on for a Battle Royale! I`ll buy the drinks...for winner & loser!

[BROOKLANDSSPEED]

nikbj68 youre buying the drinks eh? .......Teflon TREV ?.... EX Rally champion .......had to give away his drive to paddy hopkirk in the world rally once because he had to finish his first book ....his tipple is a quality red wine ....mines a snake bite [for the americananos thats cider /lager 50-50 mix ] takes like horse piss but the more you drink the faster your cobra goes ..........

[Trevor Legate]

Ah yes indeed had it not been for that book I might have been the world rally champion by now. Yeah, right. Back to my knitting.

I think about 10 laps of Goodwood in Frogeye Sprites is called for here, with Nik on hand to keep us fueled. Cheers.

Cider/lager? Nah. As an ex-impoverished art student I can vouch for the lethal properties of a cider-whisky mix. Instant migrane and can strip a Cobra of its paint in two seconds flat, similar properties for your internal organs. Snake bite? More like snake-rape.

[REAL 1]

You blokes are a riot (American slang for "funny").

Trev: How's the book going? Just publish the damn thing!

[Trevor Legate]

Real 1

Guess what I was doing today?? Getting it published. Honestly. I delivered the pics and hard copy so the design is under way, pictures are sorted, although there may be a few last minute changes and all the scans will be done over the next few weeks. Currently runnning at 89,500 words (plus an exact copy of the AC chassis register) and 278 photos. We have yet to establish the number of pages - circa 300 - and will be around 12 inches square, allowing for final paper trim. Its finally under way!! But in the nature of publishing, dont hold your breath - I will keep y'all informed and post pics of the cover etc. Then you will have to queue up and buy it in your thousands, as it will be the first book from 'my' new publishing business.........(assuming that our lawyers documents are all in order, the company will be incorporated in the next week or two.) So in about ten years I will be obscenely wealthy and retire and create a Cobra collection. No problem.

However, I still await an interesting announcement that will be worth having in the book and that should happen fairly soon, so the book will be an on-going work until the 11th hour. Unless everyone stops building Cobras tomorrow (thats not the news by the way). I just realised that I started the process of creating this book back in 1998 - arrghh.

[LURK]

Originally posted by Trevor Legate


However, I still await an interesting announcement that will be worth having in the book and that should happen fairly soon, so the book will be an on-going work until the 11th hour.

Trevor-

Why wait for the announcement and then make us wait for it to get published in your book, when you could just as easily have a few glasses of red wine and blurt it out here?

-John

[Anthony]

[b]QUOTE]Originally posted by nikbj68


Steve:
High Gloss is easier to lick clean!
I don`t think AC have been in the position to "deliver lots of aluminum Cobra's" since about 1967..... They are 'here' to appeal to a (small) number of customers who will pay a premium for an AC built /Shelby partnership Cobra the likes of which hasn`t been made for 38+ years.

I don't agree. If we could all turn back the clock, we would have all bought Cobra's in the 60's for a bunch more than the Corvette and not gotten a top, heater or windows. I believe SAI even stated that the new csx1000 cars are for a "select" number of people, who are willing to pay more for a "genuine" AC produced body/chassis. There have been multiple different manufacturers of the aluminum bodied cars, including Kirkham, Kimmons, others, and now AC. How this will affect the price of each of these cars in the future, I don't know. Will the AC csx1000 car always be worth $30,000 more than the Kirkham, or more or less than that. We'll wait and see. We all would have bought these cars in the '60's if we had the chance, foresight, as well as hemi convertibles, jaguar D's, old ferrari's, etc. But, that doesn't mean that alot of the same people who would have bought these cars in the '60's will now buy the new "perfect aluminum CSX1000,4000 cars now, meaning I'm not sure the market may be the same.



We also know that as volume goes up, the price goes down so, a lot of Cobra's produced might end up being more affordable than one might think. Also, affordable aluminum should be the focus. Not Fiberglass!. Many have found that the difference in the final cost of a well done fiberglass car is not far off from aluminum and the re-sale value percent of depreciation on the fiberglass is certainly much more than the aluminum. A well done fiberglass car doesn't lose much value either, as does a well done aluminum car, meaning 427SO's, toploader, etc, everything done to close to original spec. I've seen some fiberglass cars go for about $60,000, and I've seen kirkham's go for about the same as well.


This is the 21st century. We should be able to make it better, cheaper, faster or at least a combination of 2 out of 3.
I have a sign on my desk. It says; GOOD, FAST, CHEAP Pick 2.
You can't have it all but, at least you can get close.
If Shelby concentrated on only aluminum, I bet they could deliver more cars at good prices and not have to deal with fiberglass at all. It seems like SAI has alot more upper level management costs to cover, so I don't know how cheap they could build a car for, competing with companies with little upper management costs, etc.

Let's not forget that in 1996, the Shelby glass car finished as a painted roller was in the $50,000 - $55,000 range. A Kirkham PAINTED Roller was $50,000. So, yes. It can be done and already has. When I was looking into the costs in 1998, a finished glass CSX4000 roller was about $50-55000, while a finished Kirkham roller was $65,000.

[REAL 1]

Trev: I hope a particular picture made the cut! You know what I mean gov?

Can't wait for the book.

Now what about a movie?

[nikbj68]

Interesting stuff, Anthony.
Brooklands. The local 'BeerMonsters' drank the "Green Monster": 1/2 a Diamond White, 1/2 Heiny Export and 2 shots of creme de menthe. If you then gently pour a Baileys in, it resembles a brain in formaldehyde. You don`t need many of them on a Saturday night to not even see Sunday!
"Snake-rape"??? I`m developing a new level of respect for you, Trev, can`t decide if it`s higher or lower though! (impoverished student my arse.... you could afford Whisky?!)
Definitely liking the sound of the book format.... but you will have to sell a range of 12" shelving for folks to 'upgrade' their libraries!
I trust you wil be making a few signed copies available for your devoted fans here on CC?(sellotaped in, of course!!!)


10 laps of Gooders in Froggies, could get more TV coverage than Formula Woman, (I bet you aren`t inviting Jackie to compete!)

REAL1... I think someone got there first!

COBRA FERRARI WARS.
"Ten years in the making, this fast-paced, sixties-style, split screen epic with an amazing soundtrack tells the extraordinary story of how Carroll Shelby, together with a bunch of Southern Californian hot-rodders took on the might of Enzo Ferrari and his GTO in the mid 60s."
You can slow down a bit Trev, only 7 years in the making, you don`t want it to look like you rushed it, do you? I mean, AC could probably build a dozen cars in that time.....

[Trevor Legate]

Lurk

Like the sound of the red wine but have you ever known me 'blurt'? More than my life's worth. All secrets are safe with me, so forward all your emails in confidence...

Real 1

Sorry Real 1 - I have around 280 photos in the book and at least as many that are not, including some I would really like to use BUT....we could end up with a monster book that costs too much to print and inevitably, too expensive.
I like the idea of a movie though, as thats where the real money is. The idea of a 'Cobra' video was something I discussed with a friend many years ago as he was into acting and directing films. He was a larger than life guy who could have made it happen and been a great presenter as well. He moved to Hollywood and taught acting classes (only because he was a Brit and therefore must have known Shakespeare personally) while making his own Indie films. I was due to fly over and shoot the stills but he took his bike out for a Sunday morning blast in the desert and got hit by a truck. Kinda lost interest in the video after that.

Nik

Yeah, get those book shelves strengthened and start saving. I will also enclose autographs on slips of paper and even send you a piece of sticky tape at no extra charge. (!) Glad your opinion of me is dropping - you don't know the half of it...and I didn't buy the whisky! Really....
I think that Frogeye racing will always get more TV coverage than Formula Woman!! Sadly. As for getting J racing - there's a thought, maybe we could get on TV after all.

I think this subject has gone a bit off topic now

[nikbj68]

What has a hazelnut in every bite?
.
.
.
.
.

.
.
.
There.
(Brooklands.....No, the answer isn`t 'squirrelsh1t'.)
.
Back on Topic.

Trev. Very sad about your friend. I can see why the idea went sour.
It is a shame,however, that no-one consulted you when the BBC made 'Cobra-Ferrari Wars'..... If they had, a certain famous Red Cobra might not have been 'edited' sky blue, because Ferraris are red!!!!

[Trevor Legate]

Oh yes indeed. Lots of contempt for the producers of 'Cobra-Ferrari Wars' since they figured that the simple souls who watch the one-eyed monster would see a red (ex-Willment team) Cobra and naturally assume it was a Ferrari - so they turned it blue....I'll say it again - you can't make it up.......time for more medication.

[Trevor Legate]

Lurk (etc)

The announcement will relate to the long and rambling 'Shelby' posting that seems to have resurfaced again.'Nuff said.

[REAL 1]

Trev: When will the book hit the stores?

[LURK]

See? Blurting already! Buy that man another glass of wine!

Eagerly awaiting the news AND the book.

-John

PS ran into a former countryman of yours who now runs an Inn at one of the ski areas up here frequented by Hollywood types. He runs an event called "British Invasion," which will be taking place
September 16-18, 2005 (Featured marque: Aston Martin/Legonda) - claims to be North America's largest British Classic Sports Car Event. I may have to see if he can serve up a proper bangers and mash. Might be a good place for a book signing party if you ever get over to this side!

[Trevor Legate]

Sadly for a number of reasons, it looks as though my book will be several months in production, but I am hoping to shorten the time-scale somewhat. I'll do what I can!! We have to do initial design (i'm going to be fussy about that...), layouts, editor proof-reading, authors checks (!) final checks, off to the printers, probably in Singapore and then a 6 week shipping delay. And hope the boat does not sink. In between all that we would like to find a co-publisher and will begin the search as soon as proof pages exist. One day.....

[Excaliber]

Some people are willing to pay more for a CSX Shelby\Kirkham simply because it is an "authorized" Shelby edition car. The Kirkham is not, nice though it is.

I'm sure some people are willing to pay even more for an English bodied CSX Shelby authorized car.

I think it's pretty cool, a continuation English body authorized Shelby Cobra. Yeah, THAT car would at the top of my "most desirable" of the continuation cars list. If I was buying such a car I would NOT want anything on it or in it that wasn't original specs. The OLD suspension, brakes, engine, etc.

I would love to see a 100% true to the original car, which is pretty darn rare as far as continuation cars go. Computerworks is building such a car, original specs write down the wiring connections! Thats gonna be a fine example of the marque!

[REAL 1]

I guess there may an added panache' to some with an AC fabricated car. Agreed. However, in light of all the changes at AC over the past 40 years and the fact that non of the original fabricators are involved and that the orignal location of the shop is no longer in Thames Ditton and the fact that none of the original owners,, management, designers, fabricators are involved the "added" panache' would be limited in my opinion. Its now just a name owned by Lubinsky.

The question is whether that added "panache'" is worth $20,000.00 to $30,000.00 more. To me its not. I could make the change, assuming the new English bodies were readily available but its not worth the money difference to me. In fact one dealer admitted to me he didn't think the difference in price was worth it due to many reasons. It no longer has the same significance it used to. At least to me.

Both cars are aluminum. Both cars made to the same exact specs.

I'still suspect Brooklands is involved in "some" fabrication also for the AC cars. Maybe not, but that picture of a panel from CSX1000 at Brooklands according to Special K is pretty compelling to the conclusion that Brooklands is involved to "some" extent in the fabrication ("support").

Autokraft/AC had been making cars for years with 5.0s and to original spec. They could be obtained in the U.S. None had any particular tremendous value or appeal. They were easily outsold by many replica makes.

For, me the key is that its a Shelby Cobra and the CSX designation as a Shelby Cobra. The Shelby name and CSX designation is what truly adds the desirability and value to the car. Period. A Shelby Cobra is a Shelby Cobra.

I personally think the fact that my car was fabricated in the same factory and with the same tooling and aluminum used for Russian Migs is waaay coooool and has a mystic of its own related to the Continuation Series.

[london]

So a 60's AC badged Cobra built for the UK or European Market with a COB or COX designation wouldn't have the same appeal for you Real 1? They're certainly worth as much as the 60's CSX cars in the UK.

[REAL 1]

Honestly? No they wouldn't. If its not a Shelby, having the CSX vin and the Shelby "connection" it wouldn't be as desirable to me. I think 10 out of 10 if given a choice between a comprable 60's COB/COX or a CSX would choose the CSX hands down.

The magic to me comes with SAI and Shelby. I could have bought an Autokraft/AC. I wanted a Shelby Cobra. Period.

Also, I'm not sure a 60s COB or COX 427 has the same value as a comprable CSX 427. Maybe in England but I don't believe it would here. May be wrong but I don't think so.

I'm not saying AC's aren't desirable. I'm just saying whats important to me in relative terms.