Flat tappet cam life

[clayfoushee]

It just gets worse and worse..........I was almost ready to do the Rotella thing .

[Excaliber]

Whaddya mean STP leaves deposits? Now THERES a nasty rumor.

ARrgggghhhhhhhhh

[Ant]

I dont really know a lot about oil, only that mineral oils doesnt handle the heat the same as synthetic. I have used Castrol RS 10W60, and found it good in racing vehicles, and have seen tests where it has out performed Mobil 1, Castrol RS is based on Mineral oil with something like 20% esters. Now if you want a really top performing oil that will do a substantial road mileage Motul synthetic and it 100% synthetic derived from coconut oil.
You pay for what you get, if you have a valuable engine spend a few dollars I reckon its cheap on some good oil if it makes the engine rev better and last a bit longer it will be worth it.

Motul 300V Competition 15w-50 in the comparison I have it out performs,
Castrol RS 10W-60
Mobil 1 15w-50
Red Line 15w-50
Total Activa 10w-50

The test is done using Friction Cameron Plint, HTHS, Shear Stability, Wear Cameron Plint, Oxidation Stability and Noack Volatility.
I reckon if you mentioned this test to Amsoil they would say their oil is better, as they alway have the best oil technology .............!

[Ron61]

I have read this thread with interest and all I have gained is a lot of confusion. I have used STP in my cars for the past 20 years and any engine I have had worked on or torn down has been very clean. This is not an endorsement of STP nor to start an argument about it. As for the various oils, go to any dealer here and they will all tell you their brand has everything needed for any application. I suppose if you poured to much STP in it could leave deposits, but I always run my engines until the oil is hot and then with the engine running I put in about a half can and then go drive it again to make sure it is well mixed with the oil.

Ron

[Wayne Maybury]

Ron

Thanks for mentioning how you add the STP to your engine. This makes lots of sense. I was worried about the STP just sitting in the bottom of the oil pan. By the way, I bought some STP last night.

One point that many people maybe over looking when talking about "the best oil" is that race oils maybe very good but they are formulated for racing, not daily use which requires different additives. The race oil is made to help the engine withstand severe punishment probably at high revs, etc. Most race cars have the oil changed after every outing. A good oil for a street application has to withstand repeated warming - cooling cycles, humidity, crud (is that a word?) buildup, etc so it probably has a different set of additives.

The problem we are facing is that many of us have flat tappet, push rod engines with strong valve springs and the EPA has mandated the motor oil producers to reduce the amount of ZDDP in their products. The main purpose of the ZDDP is to reduce friction, especially in an area such as lifters running on a cam.

Lets not mix up apples and oranges. The race oil may have very good friction reduction and wear protection characteristics but it may not have the necessary additives that a street engine requires. I don't know about you, but I don't change my oil every single time that I take the Cobra out for a spin. Therefore I have to use a good quality oil that will keep the engine happy on the street, but I also have to make sure that it contains sufficient ZDDP to protect my cam and lifters. At least that is how I understand the situation.

Wayne

[Ron61]

Wayne,

That is the way I have always did it and if I remember correctly, many years ago STP put out a bulletin recommending that you do it that way so the STP could mis with the oil.
Are you still getting E-Mail notifications? Mine just stopped last night for some reason but I am getting them from all of the other sites so it has to be something here.I have aleady checked all of my CP settings and did all the clean up of cookies, Temp. Int. Files, History, and etc. The last one that I received was yesterday afternoon around 2:20 I think it was.

Ron

[Curt C.]

I think I will try the STP route until I can identify another suitable oil. Ron, Earnie, How much should I put in?? My system, along with the accusump and oil cooler, holds approximately 11 - 12 quarts.

[Excaliber]

Typical use for STP would be one can for a standard 5 qt system. I also have a 9 qt system, but I still only use one can of STP.

I don't know, what do you guys think? 1.5 cans? Two? Per oil change. I'm convinced STP is the way to go for me.

[clayfoushee]

OK, so I read some of the stuff on the Rotella site (thanks Curt). They claim it's fine for gasoline engines and meets the service requirements of new and older engines. So why wouldn't this be a decent solution if it contains the proper amount of zinc? And, why does the Comp Cams site just recommend it for break-in? They are silent on what to use after break-in.

This junk makes me crazy.......................

[Excaliber]

Yeah, I picked up on that as well Clay, silent on AFTER break in.

Maybe were all being to 'paranoid' here. Perhaps the issue IS 'break in' and following that your fine running even todays modern oils straight out of the can?

But paranoia do strike deep. I'm actually leaning toward Rotella myself just because it appears to be a viable solution without using additional additives.

[Curt C.]

Per Circle Track magazine, they say "at least through flat tappet break-in" I think I will try and contact Comp Cams on Monday about what to use after break-in. I like the Rotella too with the exception of the viscosity rating for the synthetic - 5W-40. I wish there was a 20W-50. "Paranoia" You bet! What else is there to do but worry about these cars.

[clayfoushee]

I've run Valvoline Racing VR1 20W-50, 7K on this flat tappet side-oiler. One of the bullets on the back of the bottle says:

"Ashless anti-wear additives and ZDDP provide ultimate wear protection"

It's API Service SM (exceeds API services SM/SL/CD).

http://www.valvoline.com/products/VR...otor%20Oil.pdf

[Excaliber]

I like the idea of the lower 5-40 rating. I want that oil to get up there and 'splash' around that cam as quickly as possible.

Having given that subject some serious consideration, I'm convinced the low 5 number is "OK" and I think better than the 20.

[427 S/O]

I've been using rotella for a number of years, remember reading it had far more cleaning and lubricating agents than the other brands. I also add a 1/2 cup of MoS2 or, molybdenum every second oil change. a chemist with Dow corning explained the benefits, short of typing my ass off, look it up.

[Ron61]

Not to start an argument, but I will just stick with the STP. After using it for 20+ years with no problems I am to old to start trying everything that is recommended, and any company I call their's is the only one that will work according to them. I have used it in every engine from 4 cylindes to all out racing 427 tunnel ports and have never had a problem or found any deposits or problems when an engine had to be torn down. In fact a couple of the engine builders commented on how clean the regular driver engines were inside after all those miles.

Ron

[427 S/O]

Ron, whre is the 'new thread' icon?.

[Ron61]

Perry,

It is on the upper LEFT hand side just above the line that has whichever forum you are in. Example, in This Forum All Cobra Talk it is just above the Threads in Forum.

Ron

[Jerry Clayton]

Guys-- I would like to point out a few of my observations about the flat tappet cams in high strung engines-
I have run all versions of the FE engine and never had a cam problem--
I have run Top Fuel engines that we took roller cams out of and put flat tappet cams into because the rollers would come apart and scatter in the engine--we used the PROPER lifter for the type of CAM CORE and no problems

Now move forward several years-- modern engines and machining/blue printing methods have changed-- everybody is using aftermarket cranks and rods(what has that got to do with CAMS?) follow closely, no flames, we're thinking out loud here----
I believe that the cams aren't getting enough oil--for many reasons--
1. all you guys want the FE block which in some cases doesn't have oil to the likter galleys--no oil drip onto cam, no oil around lifter, no lifter spin
2.not enough rod side clearance--so, reduced oil flow across rod journal and reduced oil fling upon the cam
3.no oil holes in side of aftermarket rods to squirt oil up onto cam and cylinder walls
4. scraper windage trays to reduce crankcase windage which reduces oil to cam
5. High pressure high volume oil pumps with accusumps, coolers , remote filters, excessive plumbing that combined with heavy weigh oil vis actually reduces the flow of oil to the engine. Most of you would benefit from the standard 6 quart pan and engine mounted filter for your street application, the oil would get to temperature and the flow would be better.
6. GET THE IDEA THAT MAYBE ALL THESE DIRECTIONS THAT WE HAVE DRIFTED MAYBE AREN"T GOOD FOR OUR CAMS??????????

The trend now is for oil squirters to oil the insde of the piston tops and drilled rods to carry more oil up to the pin area, which adds to the windage situation but helps upper crankcase oiling--

The other area is that everyone is looking for that big dyno number ,which probably will never get used, and the cam selection to build a high hp engine that will idle and still have high range power requires a cam profile that is marginal for the oil capibilities of that very same engine in the operating rpm range where it is utilized. The valve spring pressure required for these profiles are too severe for long life and will lead to nothing but increased wear in the valve train .

My suggestions?? Well we are in the woods, let's see if there are some trees

Consider detuning your mega HP engine to what you can drive and get live
a more moderate cam design that isn't more radical than the c3az6250d cam

A modern hydraulic roller lifter design-they now have profiles that make excellent power with moderate spring pressures--putting oil to the lifter bores for hydraulics will be necessary in some cases

Increase rod side clearance, rods that have squirt holes, piston sprayers,etc


Jerry

[427 S/O]

Ron, I should have said where is the 'post new thread' link?.

[Ron61]

Perry,

Here is the Post New Thread Button. See the New Thread Button over on the left hand side. Click on picture to enlarge, but it isn't very good quality.

Ron