Flat tappet cam life

[KevinM]

Jerry,

Excelent observations. No question one of the big trends in engine building has been reduced windage with windage trays, knife edge cranks, etc.

Kevin

[427 S/O]

Ron, it's not on my screen?, all I have is 'post reply'

[427 S/O]

Hold it....I clicked on 'all cobra talk' and it came up. could it be I have the old CC bookmarked?.

[Ron61]

Perry,

You will have the Post Reply Button there as long as you have the threads open. When you go to the Forum, then it should be New Thread. When you click on All Cobra Talk above and go back to the main Forum, does yours stillshow Post Reply?

Ron

[Ron61]

Perry,

That is the way it works in all Forums. Even in the Lounge. You can't start a new thread with a thread open. Sorry people. I am not trying to hijack your thread and will post any future answers in the quetion thread at the top.

Ron

[clayfoushee]

For once, we have a serious discussion going. I wish you guys would take the "How to use the Forum 101" BS somewhere else or use the PM feature!!!!

Jerry, that's a very insightful observation..........thanks.

[Ron61]

Clay,

I have already apologized for using this thread to answer the questions.

Ron

[Excaliber]

Good observations Jerry! You could boil that down to:

If you build a 'race' engine, don't expect it to last like a 'street' engine!

Solid roller lifter came apart on my old engine, which led to a 'detuned' street friendly rebuild with my current flat tappet cam. But that was the old style solid rollers. New advances in solid roller lifter design have come a long way and I wouldn't rule them out if I wanted to use them again in the future. However you WOULD need a block designed for hydraulic lifters to get enough oil to the new design solid rollers.

Connecting rods WITH an oil squirt hole and correct side clearance, by the way!

I'm not a big hydraulic fan in any case, I'll stick with solids.

[Curt C.]

Clay, I think that VR1 may be a good choice. It has the recommended viscosisty, for my 351 anyway, and the ZDDP. I am leaning more towards that than the Rotella.

[clayfoushee]

Yeah, VR1 is all this side-oiler has had in it. But over time, I've worried more about the 20W-50 during start-ups, and the fact that it takes a long time for the oil to get up to temperature. I wish there were a lighter viscosity VR1 multigrade.

I think Jerry was on to something with many of us running oil coolers, remote filters, etc. Most of us are rarely driving in the types of conditions where those things are required.

[Excaliber]

Clay I'm guessing that VR-1 is a 'detergent' oil?

Like the Redline 50 wt racing oil is NOT detergent at all.

I've wondered about the oil coolers, I don't have one and even in Hawaii it's tough to get the oil temp up to where I like it. Seems like it would be impossible with a cooler?

[clayfoushee]

Ernie, I assume so given the claims posted in the website I posted above. Plus, it says "for any car, SUV, or truck where API Service SM is recommended, see vicosity requirements."

[lineslinger]

I have been watching this thread closely as I am about to execute my first time start up in the next couple of days (I have been hoping that for a week now) Now, as far as my prep for for initial startup I have used the comp cams lube they provide on my cam, a 282S solid lifter magnum series, we have removed the inner springs for lower spring pressure until after breakin, we have pre oiled a couple of times and will do so again just before firing, Valvoline 10-40 cold is showing 100 psi.
This discussion really has me thinking, what else should I do as a precautionary measure to insure this beast stays healthy? Is EOS needed this early? This first oil charge is going to get dumped after the first 30 minutes anyway and then the motor is going to be sitting around for the next few months while the car gets built.
Upon completion of the car, another motor run in, under load this time, and yet another oil change after a couple of hours on the road.
When does the EOS supplement start and when should it end, if at all?
I have rebuilt my fair share of solid lifter motors using nothing more than assemble lube without any problems, but I have never tricked one out the way I have this FE (a side oiler).
I've got way too much cash in this thing to skimp on proper lubrication/addatives, and I am not planning on wiping a lobe, SO..................please share your thoughts, I'm all ears.
Mark

[Excaliber]

I am running the 292S cam. I would FOR SURE use the EOS for the very first 'fire it up'!

It's that first 20 or 30 minutes that is SO important as to if the cam will live or die. THATS when you really need the EOS. I changed oil after the initial breakin right away, looking for debris and wierd things, looked good. I did not use anymore EOS following that.

I then ran the motor for quite a few miles before I got around to putting the inner springs in. Not sure that was necessary, but I figured it couldn't hurt, kept the rpm down. My BIGGEST concern was if the lifters would rotate in their bore, if they dont you WILL have a flat cam no matter what you do. I think I'd leave the inner springs out until your ready to drive the car. Of course their a real pain in the butt to change once the engine is IN the car, but thats the way I did it!

[427 S/O]

Ron, whatever the problem was?....it's gone, sorry for the confusion...

[undy]

I've got <200 miles on the new top end on my 428 now. I used EOS (full container) for my cam break in. After the cam break-in I went to the 15w 50 Mobil 1 with no additive. I'm getting ready to build a sbc 383 stroker for my work truck and I bought a new container of EOS for it. After reading this thread and careful consideration I went out into the garage yesterday and poured half of the EOS into the Cobra. Until I'm convinced otherwise I'll run that combination from now on..

[Rick Parker]

CSX 4027:

When did Brad Penn assume the Kendall Brand name?

[Ron61]

Anyone,

My engine was ran in and all that on the dyno a couple of years ago. The engine builder then told me to use Mobil 1 Super Syn 15-50 racing oil as that is what he uses in his race engines and is what he did the dyno runs with in mine after he had broken the cam in. I didn't have mine built out to near the capacity it could have been as I wanted to be able to drive it. Also used a lower profile cam where the power tops out at 6300 RPM and I set the rev limiter to 6000. No where on it can I find anything about VR1 in it, but it has seemed to work well. I do add the STP when I change oil.
As for the cold start ups and oil cooler, you can get a thermostat to go between the oil cooler and the filter that won't open until the oil temp is up to where it should be. Here in the Summer with out heat, the oil and ater are already hot by the time I get the cars out of the garage.
Any suggestions?

Ron

[Jerry Clayton]

Excaliber mentioned the lifters spinning--absolutely gotta spin--if you have any doubts, take off the valve covers and run the engine to see that they all spin as it runs--yeh, I know the lifters are hard to see but the push rods will spin with them--

Another caution--we do a lot of the earlier muscle/classic type engine rebuilds and started using another shop for thermal cleaning some of the rust bucket cores--this process uses high temp to burn all the oily crud and then a shot blast process to knock off the residue--looks super, block is ready to paint--BUT--bolt holts need to be retapped and the LIFTER BORES ALL HAVE A SHOT DIMPLED SURFACE that makes the lifters tight in the bores--requiring at the minimun a bottle brush ball home treatment up to actually rehoning the surbace with a lifter honing unit--the lifters absolutly have to be free

All flat tappet (solid or hyd) cams are ground at a slight angle toward the back that causes the cam to want to run rearward in the block which keeps the timing gear against the block surface in the front(this angle is also what spins the lifter) Roller cams ARE NOT ground this way and need a thrust plate to locate them in the block. I often wonder if maybe some of the cam grinders haven't ground some cams without this angle which would result in premature failure. The lifters should also have a very slight crown on them and not be worn flat or concave.

Jerry

[hoppy]

It would be nice to see some prominent FE engine builders weigh in on this.
Gessford, Southern, Keith Craft....where are you guys on this issue?