Flat tappet cam life

[decooney]

I'm running the 15/40 Rotella now myself. Formerly, Castrol GTX 20/50. I've always stayed away from synthetic in my FE for the same reasons some old timers stay away from it in Harleys; slippery, no stick, no climbing.

Man that Rotella sure smells. You know as soon as you put it in there. The first time a ran it with Rotella, I could actually hear a slight difference in how my valvetrain sounds. Being so in tune with my solid lifter valves/sounds, with this new oil, it actually sounds a tad smoother for whatever reason.

If anyone has more current updates from cam companies or engine builders on additional findings regarding long-term use of Rotella would be appreciated. Thanks,

[Rick Parker]

I think the oil Filter will remove the majority of the EOS in a very few minutes although it will initially serve its purpose.

BTW Kendall's site shows the respective %'s of zinc in various greades of oil. The single grades seem to have the most zinc, since single oil technology was primarily from the 60's and is currently used soley in the performance environment.

[Excaliber]

What? The oil filter will remove the EOS?

...just when I thought we had a handle on this... The whole subject is Teflon coated!

[jdean]

In that case I guess the oil filter is removing the STP as well.

[Dennis Kelley]

It may be a stupid question but why so many people running a flat tappet design? Most of the small block crowd has been Hyd or solid Roller for over 20 years. Unless there is something I'm unaware of roller cams can be retro fitted to Windsor blocks that didn't come equiped with them. Good luck finding a cure guys.

later dennis

[jdean]

One reason may be that the solid roller design has some bad history of coming apart and destroying the rest of the engine.

Another reason may be that the difference in power/reliability using a hydraulic flat tappet vs. hydraulic roller may not be enough to justify the $600.00 or so difference in price in some peoples minds.

[Excaliber]

Don't like hydraulic anything. Don't like the roller solids, all though if you spend ENOUGH money you can get a MODERN set up that works OK. This assumes you DO have the right kind of block to work with. Some side oiler blocks will NOT support a MODERN roller design OR hydraulic lifters of any kind! Flat tappet is your ONLY logical choice for any street application.

Besides, for good performance at a decent price it's hard to beat the flat tappet design.

Been there, broke that, no more solid rollers for me!

[Rick Parker]

I agree with Ernie, I prefer solid lifter flat tappet, very infrequent adjustment, good sounds (like an original) and no worries of a link bar coming apart or needle bearings being indiscrimenently disperssed throughout the engine. Lower cost can be considered a side benefit, but overall maintenance is less than with solid roller and for me was the main consideration. Using the correct oil is of course paromount.

[Wayne Maybury]

OK, the temperature of oil has been mentioned a couple of times. What is a good oil temperature range? I have an oil cooler, more for looks than performance, maybe I should by pass it.

I rebuilt a 289 hi po 271 HP many years ago. The factory rod bearings had holes in them, the new ones didn't. I drilled holes in the new bearings to match up with the holes in the rods. I ran the hell out of that engine for years afterwards with no problems. Those little holes certainly add lubrication to the cylinder walls and the cam & lifters.

Wayne

[Snakebit]

I just read a test by Amsoil on motorcycle oil. Mobil MX4T had a zinc content of .017. SH rated. SM rating meets the cat converter regs and has a lower zinc content.

This is a synthetic oil which was mentioned in another test by the GM engineer, does not cling to metal parts over a period of time as well as regular oil. If we are storing our cars for short periods of time, it would make more sense to use a conventional oil. He saw no advantage of using synthetic over conventional and that all oil should be changed at 3000 miles.

So for flat tappet cams is the general consenis Shell Rotella?

[Jerry Clayton]

Wayne

A good temp range is 240f to 270f--Needs to be hot enough to boil out water condensation
Most of the heat that gets into the over plumbed/over cooled oil systems of most of these cars come from the pressure rise in the oil pump itself

Jerry

[cfm]

CurtC1 from the Shell Oil Forum:

My thread got poofed for I mentioned some other companies' oils we have had success with.

Valvoline Racing Oil (available at NAPA) has been working out real well for a while now.

Joe Gibb's Racing oil : http://www.joegibbsracingoil.com/products.php has been working extremely well also for many builders. They have a terrific break in oil also.

Remember - for break in you should ALWAYS use GM's EOS available at most GM dealers and all GMPP Dealers.

=======================================
I too have been looking for typical on the shelf in regular store oil that people can use to stop this madness, but no companies will really fess up.

Issue is: ZDDP in decent amt's can lead to pre-100k mile catalytic converter malfunction. Auto industries converted to hyd roller cams to be able to use oils without much ZDDP. Remember, they have to warranty these and some other emmission items for 100K miles in most states.

=====================================
Hope this helps you guys somewhat.

[cfm]

Oh, one last tid bit to put out there since obviously you guys are into performance.

If you purchase good hyd roller parts and set the valve springs correctly, the only reason to ever go reg flat tappet is $$$$. But, wiuth the way these things have been wearing out it really hasn't been cheaper for many people.

Rollers will always make more power over a wider rpm band.

On SBC (sorry to mention those but that's what I work on) solid rollers have lived on the stret for many miles with good parts and the use of 'rev kits.' Rev Kits will keep the roller on the cam lobes during 'lash.' by preloading them.

I really don't like to use flat tappet cams anymore if we don't have to. Especially now with the wear issues.

[Excaliber]

Hydraulic rollers? You wimp, real men run flat tappets.

,,, I been dieing to say that, I feel much better now.

[KevinM]

Has anyone used the Crower mechanical roller lifters with the "High Pressure Pin Oiling" option? They claim it takes care of the needle oiling problems for street use on a mechanical roller.

Kevin

[Wayne Maybury]

Most of the heat that gets into the over plumbed/over cooled oil systems of most of these cars come from the pressure rise in the oil pump itself

Jerry, Can you expain your statement? Firstly, I am well aware of the heat gain when a gas is compressed (and conversely the cooling as it expands). Secondly, I always thought that much of the heat in motor oil came as it is cooling certain parts of the engine. Why/how does the oil get hotter as it goes through the pump? Is this caused by friction or something else? If you are an engineer, please try to make the explanation using ordinary English so that I don't have to ask for a translation later on.

By the way, I don't think that I have ever seen my oil temp much over 240 F.

Thanks,
Wayne

[Excaliber]

I start to get worried if mine ever gets that high, something must be wrong!

I have to drive on the freeway for quite some distance to EVENTUALLY get my oil temp up to around 80-90 c, less than 212 F. Now that could be the temp probe location, bottom front of the pan, or an inaccurate gauge (both are brand new). No oil cooler and no remote filter(s).

If I DID have an oil cooler, I would CERTAINLY by-pass it!

[Wayne Maybury]

Ernie

My oil temp is always higher than my water temp which is usually in the 180 to 190 F range.

Wayne

[cfm]

Originally Posted by KevinM

Has anyone used the Crower mechanical roller lifters with the "High Pressure Pin Oiling" option? They claim it takes care of the needle oiling problems for street use on a mechanical roller.

Kevin

Yes, the pin oiling works wonders.
Rev Kits also really help out.
And lobes with non-drag race intentions really helps valvetrain life.

There are many street driven solid rollers out there with very good success and a ton of power of course.

Yes, I like solid flat tappets too. I didn't mean to sound like I didn't if I seemed this way.

Technology is going forward by leaps and bounds.

[Excaliber]

Wayne thats what my friends tell me with their Cobras as well.

I don't get it, maybe my temp sensor IS 'broke'? However, it was about the same thing with the OLD sensor\gauge as it is now. As well, about the same thing with the OLD motor and the new rebuilt one! Go figure...