Flat tappet cam life - Page 5

Jerry Clayton · #81 (**permalink**) 02-27-2006, 05:42 PM

Wayne--comment about temp rise in pump--compressing a liquid will give a temp rise just as a gas-temp gained equal to power to turn pump--I have taken out many high volume/pressure pumps from engines replaced with normal pump/pressure and there has been lower oil temp and more power. And yes oil does cool things

Kevin? The high pressure roller needle bearing oiling of the new type rollers don't work in these engines as there is no lifter oil galley to supply pressure to the lifters.

Ernie--check your oil temp with a separate thermoneter--maybe a long meat style down the dipstick

Jerry

KevinM · #82 (**permalink**) 02-27-2006, 06:08 PM

Jerry,

I think some FE's had hydraulic cams, mostly 390s and 428s. I have heard that some 427s did and most didn't and therefore don't have the lifter galleys drilled. Genesis claims their lifter galleys are drilled to accept hydraulic or solid lifters.

Kevin

Jerry Clayton · #83 (**permalink**) 02-27-2006, 06:17 PM

Kevin

The first (1958) 332 and 352 engines were solid lifter with a midyear change to Hydraulics(identified with a orange mark on the valve cover) Later high performance only type engines were solid only without the galleys being drilled. I have made oil manifold logs in the galley area with a steel line going to each lifter boss so hyd could be used--I think most of the cam failures are in non oil galley lifter bores, with no oil getting around the tappet and running down on the cam.

Jerry

KevinM · #84 (**permalink**) 02-27-2006, 06:37 PM

Jerry,

That certainly makes sense. Combine the reduced oil to the top end and lifters with a windage tray and knife edged crank as was mentioned earlier, and that certainly sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Kevin

Ant · #85 (**permalink**) 02-27-2006, 06:42 PM

I am running Schubeck ceramic solid flat tappet camshaft, I have read posts where the only part that wears with this setup is the camshaft, so if my camshaft lasts 20-30000 miles that will be fine as I will probably give the engine a freshen by then.

Oil, I have been in touch with the Motul rep, and 15w-50 300 competiton did really well in some tests, better than Castrol RS 10W-60, the reason is simple Motul is full synthetic like Amsoil oil and a couple of others, derived from Coconut Oil, the Motul 15w-50 has an additive to give it reasonably change interval, but if racing etc its obviously a good idea to change it more often, maybe max 2000 miles of mixed use road race use, or if it gets dirty. This stuff aint cheap probably about USD$150 per change. Apparently Motul follows closely behind Amsoil for Zinc/Phospherous, and this can deplete after 1000 hot hard race miles, that is a lot of racing!

Another precaution but a hassle my engine is dry sump so I can prime off the electric drill with drive belt removed, will do that if it hasnt been going for a period.

cfm · #86 (**permalink**) 02-28-2006, 10:08 AM

Oil Analysis' with Zinc !
Now, this doesn't mention all oils, but a good amt of them.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/voalibrary.html

Also check out homepage for more stuff.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/index.html

Rotella
http://63.240.161.99:8080/bitog/voa...tella-15w40.jpg

Mobil 1 15-50
http://63.240.161.99:8080/bitog/voa...-1-ep-15w50.jpg

Mobil 1 20-50 V Twin
http://63.240.161.99:8080/bitog/voa...-twin-20w50.jpg

GM EOS
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi...c;f=11;t=000243

===========================
This should nearly end our mission and with that I'm leaving. I don't have a Cobra. Darn !

Again, just wanted to help out since one of you guys also posted over at the Shell Oil forum looking for answers from them.

Keep up your good work and enjoy those beautiful Cobra's !

CFM
- Scott

CSX 4027 · #87 (**permalink**) 02-28-2006, 12:00 PM

Some of the links do not go. Could you re-post? Thanks eventhough I have a headache reading those charts.

Curt C. · #88 (**permalink**) 03-04-2006, 01:36 PM

I went out today and bought a whole bunch of Mobil 1 15W-50. All of it is rated SL/CF which has a good amount of zinc - 1376 ppm per the Bob Oil Guy website. That is a great site by the way. There appears to be a lot of the old stuff on the shelf still, at least in Las Vegas. In fact, I could not even find the newer SM rated oils except for a 0W-40. At least I now have time to investigate different products.

Snakebit · #89 (**permalink**) 03-23-2006, 06:58 AM

I called Comp Cams to see what oil they recommended for flat tappet cams after break in. The tech rep said the break in is the most critical part. Once the cam is broke in you can use any premium oil you choose.

I searched Bob The Oil Guy

Zinc

Mobil1 .858
Brad Penn .861
Shell Rotella 1.218
RedLine 1.350
Chevron Delo 1.362
Mobil MX4T 1.802
Royal Purple 1.901
STP oil treatment 1.959

I contacted Mobil Oil about using Mobil MX4T Motorcycle oil in a high performance engine using a flat tappet cam. They said the Mobil MX4T would be an excellent choice due to the high zinc content.

rdorman · #90 (**permalink**) 03-23-2006, 07:09 AM

Good stuff!

Tom Kirkham · #91 (**permalink**) 08-17-2007, 10:22 AM

I just had this site e-mailed to me. Lots of very good info...

http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html

bobcowan · #92 (**permalink**) 08-17-2007, 01:25 PM

Why not just add a can of STP to your favorite motor oil?

Excaliber · #93 (**permalink**) 08-17-2007, 02:06 PM

Thats EXACTLY what I do! In my Jeep as well, I've used the stuff for years but wasn't exactly sure why until these recent studies concerning zinc. By golly there really WAS something to STP!

DougD · #94 (**permalink**) 08-17-2007, 02:07 PM

I'd be careful if contemplating the use of any motorcycle oils in an automobile engine. Most motorcycle oils are intended to be used in a wet clutch environment (the engine crankcase and the tranny/clutch share the same oil) and therefore lack some of the anti-friction additives found in moden automobile oils. You don't want to use regular car-type oil in a bike because it can mess up the clutch, so you probably had better not use bike oil in a car. There are many more additives in a bottle of oil than just the zinc.

Excaliber · #95 (**permalink**) 08-17-2007, 02:19 PM

Might be some truth in there DougD, like everything about these oil discussions theres some controversy no matter which way you go.

I've heard of several people having problems with their motorcycle clutch when using some synthetic auto type oil, it allows TO much slipping. My Burgman has an independant trans from the engine, I use diesel Shell Rotella in both the engine and trans for my application. I DON'T use STP in the bike, but I've been thinking about it...

Norain · #96 (**permalink**) 08-17-2007, 02:33 PM

The fellow that built the FE for my Cobra, Eric at Preformance Engineering, uses Kendal or Castrol racing oil, 20/50, both non synthetic. He's not a synthetic oil guy. I have been unable to find either of these oils here. But, I have two friends who are drag racers and sometimes run their cars on the street and they use "Lucas 20/50 Plus Racing OIL". I've talked to Eric about this stuff and he said give it a try, as long as it's not synthetic, which it isn't.
I am goina try it in about 200 miles, the first oil change. The API ratings are: SM/SL/SJ/CF. Zinc:11%. Lucas states that it has a high level of detergents. Maybe I'll try it on a load of laundry. I hope I don't sound like a Lucas oil salesman, cause I'm not, I'm just passin on info and lookin for answers. Remember, "The truth is out there". Cya, Jerry

Badsnake427 · #97 (**permalink**) 08-17-2007, 02:45 PM

Got this with a Google search.

"% zinc is the amount of zinc used as an extreme pressure, anti- wear additive. The zinc is only used when there is actual metal to metal contact in the engine. Hopefully the oil will do its job and this will rarely occur, but if it does, the zinc compounds react with the metal to prevent scuffing and wear. A level of .11% is enough to protect an automobile engine for the extended oil drain interval, under normal use. Those of you with high reving, air cooled motorcycles or turbo charged cars or bikes might want to look at the oils with the higher zinc content. More doesn't give you better protection, it gives you longer protection if the rate of metal to metal contact is abnormally high." Check out this website. It gives the zinc content of pretty much every oil available. http://www.micapeak.com/info/oiled.html From the chart the zinc content in Shell Rotella is .12%. I have always used Kendall GT-1 oil in my cars. The chart reads that the Kendall has a zinc content of .16%. Good stuff!

55312 · #98 (**permalink**) 08-19-2007, 06:40 AM

Note the date of that study. It is no longer valid as the EPA mandated changes took effect last January!

Tim

Badsnake427 · #99 (**permalink**) 08-19-2007, 07:04 AM

Good point, I didn't notice that.

I can still get Kendall GT-1 oil here, though. How would I be able to get a recent analasis?

zrayr · #**100** (**permalink**) 08-19-2007, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobcowan

Why not just add a can of STP to your favorite motor oil?

there are many reasons not to use STP in a street engine. Racing engines that are rebuilt frequently, that's different.

two of the main reasons NOT to use it:

Using STP will cause a shellac-like build up on on bearing surfaces. not good.

Using STP will change a 15W-50 oil to 50W-50 or worse. IS that what you want your oil pump to encounter on cold starts?

Use a high quality synthetic oil on engines that have been broken in is the best bet. Mobil 1 15W-50 has a high level of ZDDP (1200 ppm) and will work great. I use it in my flat tappet engine with excellent results. Over 17,000 miles with no wear ( that includes cam & tappet ), no leaks, and no problems.

BTW, I don't work for Mobil,

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...t_Engines.aspx

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...1_15W-50_.aspx

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...il1_15W-50.asp

Z. Ray