If the Super Cobra is worth 5mil what is the Flip Top worth?

[lamaluv]

What do you suppose CSX2196 the Fip Top, also known as the Turd, is worth?





It is truly a one of a kind Cobra with a race history It was raced at Sebring by Ken Miles. It was also used as a 427 pre-prototype and is a significant part of the development of the 427 Cobras. So what do you think it would be worth.





Having seen both cars , I know I would rather have CSX2196.
The current owner had the Fip Top at the 2005 WSCB and he and his wife actually took it to the track and on the cruise.





That car is not a Museum queen. I wonder how much driving the Super Cobra will get?

Dick

[Hank F]

I`ll start,5 mil,btw what shade of blue is the fliptop?
Hank F

[Excaliber]

Hey thats a very good and interesting question you pose! I wonder...

[Yetiman]

It depends on who's interested in buying it.

[ItBites]

It is worth less than the supersnake.

Y'all are forgetting that Shelby's mystique is more powerful than actual racing history. The Legend is larger than any reality!!

Shelby had the supersnake built for HIM, not for a race driver. He drove it. He lobbied for the $5M with tales of yore and such BS...

For this, the supersnake appeals to a wider audience (many folks know of Shelby, but few can tell you what cars actuially raced by S/N) of enthusiasts. Realize that on this forum we have almost the entire group of folks who can name the CSX numbers of the racers. The rest of well-heeled car guys just know that Shelby is an icon...

[lamaluv]

The one remaining, of two original Super Snake's, sells for $5Mil and one of thirtyone 427 S/C's sells for $1.43 mil on the same weeked in Arizona. One with the BS, sorry thats BJ hype, the other without. Would we be safe in saying that the Flip Top CSX2196 would fall somewhere inbetween? Would you value a Cobra that has been restored to like new over one that looks like it did "in the day".

Dick

[Cal Metal]

I don't disagree with ItBites assessment. Carroll's persona carries a huge premium and that was proven, in spades, this past weekend. His car was more of a novelty and I don't mean to be dismissive when I say that. Much of the provenance--and subsequent dollars received for these cars--is due to who owned and who drove them, whether it be Carroll, McQueen, Garner, etc. That brings me to my next point.......

The Flip Top is truly one-of-a-kind and is a Snake that has an enormous historical provenance. For openers, it is the only CSX 2000 car that is a Factory big block. More importantly, its creator, developer, and driver was the legend of legendaries: the incomparable, Ken Miles. Perhaps, next to Remington, he is deemed to be the most famous person in the SAI stable---and that is saying something when you look at the employee list back then. It was the BB Prototype with a one off aluminum engine. Its body configuration--notwithstanding the "flip"--is also one of a kind. There is no Cobra that has an interior or exterior that is close to CSX 2196.

Bottom line: outside of the Daytona Coupes, the Flip Top is probably the most historic Snake in the Pantheon of Shelby cars. Again, much of the fame can be attributed to three things: Miles, Miles, Miles.

BTW, the color is a variation of Guardsman Blue.

My estimate: $5,000,000 (easy). The owner is a close personal friend; otherwise, my guess would be $4,900,000.

[dblbarrel]

The color looks like viking blue on my monitor?

[PDHse]

Well put Cal, agree with you 100%. The Fliptop and Ken Miles, what a combination.

[ItBites]

I still think that to the majority of collectors (large demand = large competition = large price) the Shelby provenance will trump the Miles provenance. While I understand that Miles is a God to this crowd; this crowd is small (small demand). I had never heard of Ken Miles (no offense intended) until here on this forum, but I certainly had heard of Shelby...

Frankly, I think this paradigm is wrong, since I see Shelby as BS'er with a huge personality and Miles as a superstar racer from the 60s (but, man was that a long time ago). Miles deserves significant respect, whereas Shelby... well...

But all in all, popularity, personality and the fact he still lives (and continues to gain notoriety to this day) will rule in the general public, and there are more multi-millionaires in the general public than in the hard-core Cobra groupie crowd.

I am certainly no expert, but I doubt if Ron Pratte knows anything about Ken Miles, even though his achievements are notable. I guarantee Ron knows who Carroll Shelby is!

I'd give the flip top a $750K premium above other Cobras with significant racing provenance. The supersnake appeals to a larger group of wealthy enthusiasts than just those interested in race-only cars.

[Power Surge]

If the Fliptop ever does go up for auction, it will be interesting to see if they mention that the car was nicknamed "The Turd".

[Excaliber]

Sal, good one, I concur!

[Trevor Legate]

I think all Turds should be kept away from auctions :-)

[rjbh20]

Does the flip top have its original engine?

[lamaluv]

Probably not, as it was first fitted with a full race alloy 390 CID with four Webers. It then got the 427 that Miles ran at Nassau in December 1964. Also on the last page of Michael Shoen's second edition book there is a list of "Cars Built To Racing Specification:" that shows "2196 Team car, fitted 427 engine, wrecked at Sebring '64, rebuilt as experimental car and used to test alloy 390 CID engine." I would guess that there are several engines that could be considered "original".


Dick

[Cal Metal]

The Flip Top currently has an all aluminum 427 engine. The 390 cid engine is long gone. This car has been meticuously maintained by its owner, Rich Mason of Carson City, NV. He also owns CSX 2427, the only Factory built, independently campaigned SB DragonSnake.

[lamaluv]

Rich's yellow Dragon Snake can be seen just behind the Flip Top in my first picture. He has all kinds of picture and documents with the history of his cars.


Dick

[High-Tide]

I do not see CS's car having anything to do with the value of any other Cobra's. To assume so is frankly dumb. My opinion.
High-Tide

[RICK LAKE]

You talk about flip top car, dragonsnake cars, where do you think the Dick Smith car would end up? Rumor has it that 2-4 million was offered and declined. This car is the winningest privateer car through the years in SAAC races and hill climbs at Pikes Peak. I understand that FFR is building the bumperets that look the same as this car. Shelby was very lucky to get the drivers and mechanics he got. Too bad he has the I like me syndrome more than anything else. Rick Lake

[Excaliber]

To assume the sale price of the Super Cobra won't have some impact on the other originals AND replicas is, well frankly, dumb.