Dual roll bars - form or function?

[jwd]

Originally Posted by RedBarchetta

[fire suit on]Damn...some of you guys need to grow some cajones and tell your better halves that it's gonna be your way or the highway when it comes to cars, hobbies, etc. Just my stupid opinion, which isn't even worth $0.02 on the open market. Sorry for being offensive, but I'm having difficulty handling this view of a bunch of gearheads (a compliment, by the way!) on a public forum bowing to the wives on some things regarding our precious little roadsters. [/fire suit off]
Dean

I couldn't agree more. The originals had ONE rollbar. Mine does too. 2 bars are kinda like high back seats - WRONG.

[cobrashoch]

Snakes forbid, on rollovers that start on the passenger side, having no rollbar on the passiger side will increase rollover momentum in a flip. Having the second bar there is no guarantee, but there has been times the second bar will force a side slide as apposed to a rollover. If you are doing ANY kind of racing it's no contest, having the second bar wins everytime, that is if it's of sturdy design and won't collapse.

[sidewaysinthird]

I much prefer the look of NO rollbar at all, but living in Houston with the "best" drivers causes a second thought or two. I'm going to have ERA install two and if the car is painted silver the bars will be black. The wife says its my car, so its up to me. A very trusting woman isn't she...I have had several people tell me they would go for a single hoop from side to side, but that just doesn't look right to me. Anyone have a picture of their car with one wide hoop?

Mike

[Got the Bug]

You can't beat the look of the new full roll bar that Superformance now offers as an option. Here's a link to Ken's SPF.

http://web.mac.com/pbmracing/iWeb/PB...l?slideIndex=0

Personal preference, but I don't like the look of the dual roll bars. I haven't taken delivery of my car yet, but if I was ordering a new SPF I'd go with the full roll bar.

[Maricopa]

on rollovers that start on the passenger side, having no rollbar on the passiger side will increase rollover momentum in a flip. Having the second bar there is no guarantee, but there has been times the second bar will force a side slide as apposed to a rollover.

Are you a real engineer or do you just play one on the internet?

[fastraxsg]

Maricopa,
Exactly what do you have pictures of ????

"For anyone wanting to see some REAL ones I have pictures."

I ordered mine with twin roll bars and have been told they were functional (frame mounted). I've seen a lot of pictures of cars here with the short little stubby bars, well below head level but like they say, if you have a $10 head...... I've been crashed and bashed too many times, too many days in hospitals and too many times on the operating table. Its your dime that bought the car, your life, do your own thing.... kinda like putting head rest on your seats....

[rdorman]

Some of the original cars where raced with one large hoop for those that are concerned with the whole historical thing....... No, don't have the pictures. But I would bet beans to dollars that Computerworks does!

[Sean_Day]

I would install the second rollbar as a safety item for the passenger. Be it wife, girlfriend, child, or whomever. If something terrible was to happen, could you live with yourself walking away from the accident and seeing your passenger being "tagged and bagged"?

[fastraxsg]

For those of you that have Dave Friedman's book, page 112 and 113, shows 39PH, the willment Cobra with a full width roll bar and on page 155 it shows the start of the '65 Lemans with the # 18 Cobra of Shelby's with a full width bar (center of page). Page 104 shows Ed Hughs with one in 1964. A lot of Shelby's King Cobra's ran with full width bars also.

Page 125 of "AC Cobra" by R. Mills shows an orange one with full bar. Goodwood photo on page 111, page 62 of CS 2131 in 1964, 1962 photo of CSX2009 with full roll cage on page 43, all same book.

[vettestr]

I think most of these bars are for form more than function to use your word options. The best protection is a true 5 point cage. This is above and forward of helmet with side or forward bars to protect the driver.
The original bars although the standard of the day when mounted on todays car are often just for looks. The bar must be taller than the drivers helmet (less than 3 inches but not allow helmet to hit bar anywhere). Draw a line between roll bar top and front frame crossbars to determine envelope of protection. Where would everything collapse (body torn away) to steel structure and then would driver be protected inside this zone and the windshield frame is not a support structure.

[Maricopa]

Fast, I've rolled a vehicle too (sandrail) so I know what it's like to hang from a harness, but I don't race my car, or even open track it and I accept the pretty low odds of flipping it on the street. If I were to race I'd have a spec racer or something similar. Full width bars, side intrusion, etc. not just a 'period correct' 3-point paper clip behind my noggin'.

As far as pictures....man do I have pictures.

[WarrenG]

I've also rolled, but without a roll bar. 65 Corvair, the windshield posts saved the four of us. I don't think any of the Cobras windshield frames would provide any protection so if I was going for passenger protection I'd opt for the single wide hoop. As mentioned before, they were used in some originals for racing and IMHO they look better than the dual singles. Besides just think of all the extra stuff (cameras etc) you could hang from a wide single bar that you couldn't get on the little singles!

[Brian F.]

Wife... what's a wife?

[emberglo66]

Both, Extra protection and I think it looks better. I also wanted a car that was not like all the other Superformance Cobras. Custom make.
Check out my gallery

[jwd]

Originally Posted by RedBarchetta

[fire suit on]Damn...some of you guys need to grow some cajones and tell your better halves that it's gonna be your way or the highway when it comes to cars, hobbies, etc. Just my stupid opinion, which isn't even worth $0.02 on the open market. Sorry for being offensive, but I'm having difficulty handling this view of a bunch of gearheads (a compliment, by the way!) on a public forum bowing to the wives on some things regarding our precious little roadsters. [/fire suit off]

{digging in and ducking for cover before the next salvo of shells come raining in...}

-Dean

Well put. Not only do I think 2 rollbars look kind of odd, my wife agree's. When she saw a picture of a Cobra with two bars, she asked why would someone do that when the originals only had one? I can build it anyway I want, as long as it doesn't have 2 roll bars or high back seats.

[496fe]

Thanks for the thoughtful responses (for the most part). However, I still can't get rid of this picture in my mind of a turtled Cobra. I seems to me that, with the engine being in front, the three points of contact would be the two highest non-fibreglass points at the front with the rollbar(s) being the third. If you draw a line between these points i.e. the pavement, the line intersects somewhere around the nose or eyes in most cases. The SCCA rulebooks are very specific about this imaginary line being above the head, rather than through it, especially when hanging upside down in a harness.

Am I all wet, or does it really matter more about the height of the rollbars, rather than the number of them?

[Tom Wells]

496fe,

Both height and width count.

When we sit in my car the rollbars are above our helmets by about 2" to 3". Width is important mainly if you have a passenger, which was the case when we flipped on the track, or if you have a wife who asks "where's mine....?"

In either case I can attest to the efficacy of being able to answer that query affirmatively!

Finally, you are the arbiter - it's your car, and therefore your decision. Having said that, I know what I'd do

Enjoy,

Tom

[RedBarchetta]

I really think vettstr and 496fe are hitting the perverbial nail on the head here. In a true roll-over where the impact is severe and the car ends up in a wheels-up position, standard height roll bars (no matter how many you apply) in the "stock" (boy, we sure use that term loosely with these cars, don't we?) location won't help you more than, say, strong prayers with a higher power above (or below, whichever way you pray).

To affix a roll bar into these cars that is worthy of truly protecting the occupants is to totally change the complexion and personality that has drawn so many to a Cobra to begin with. I truly respect those that want to protect themselves and their occupants, so don't get me wrong...that's the beauty of freedom of choice (something the Middle East is still trying to figure out after 2,000 years). But lately I haven't seen any Harley-Davidsons with training wheels or bumpers, and I surely don't plan to place a tortoise shell over the darn-near-most-beautiful, gorgeous, sexy, curvacious (is that a valid word?!?) automotive body that ever stirred the senses.

I'm probably the last guy to stand in line for Carroll's autograph, but the day he massaged a Ferrari-influenced-but-British-pounded AC into a 427/SC the Gods were smiling and 'ol Carroll hit a dinger out of the park. Even if he didn't think much about safety at the time and placed a lazy hoop behind the driver, the simplicity is where the beauty evolves.

-Dean

[jdog]

God, I love this place! You couldn't buy this ambiance for any amount of money, anyplace else.

jdog

[Tom Wells]

Dean,

Have you "been there, done that?"

Are are you specu-pontificating?

You can check my gallery for the roll bars. We (my instructor in the passenger seat and I in the driver's) flipped at over 100 mph. Hard. Took branches out of trees 3-6 feet off the ground. The roll bars worked.

Do I detect a warmth in the atmosphere in your comments? Forgive me, but they don't seem based on any relevant experience.

The E-M bars worked just fine. Dunno what other evidence to present....

Check my gallery for a few shots of the suspension - the body, wheels etc were ruined, along with one of my arms (that's the wrist restraint story), otherwise not a scratch on either of us.

Just so you know...

Tom