CSX 4331 for $199,500

[John McMahon]

Originally Posted by computerworks

...or...he could just be misinformed.

He already thinks the Vegas plant is closed...and that James is Joel Rosen.

I know Joel Rosen had a drag Cobra in his shop regularly back in the 60s, but I do not think many (any?) have been there as of late. I believe Joel has been trying to hawk half million dollar retro Camaros recently. He always was a Chevy guy! I used to deliver parts frpm a Speed warehose to his place in Baldwin, LI in the late 70s.

[4RE KLR]

A car is worth what someone is wiling to pay for it. Nothing more, nothing less. I thought this was James' "old" car and I sent him the email. Turns out I was right.

This IS a very well built, best of everything car, or at least it was when James had it.

It is great we have a place where we can talk about these things.

[fsstnotch]

It's a great looking car. IMO, the claim of 780 is just "dealer markup" I mean, after 740, is 40hp really going to sell you the car? Doubt it!

I couldn't even imagine the attention that a 740hp mirror would bring in! haha

Josh

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by 4RE KLR

A car is worth what someone is wiling to pay for it. Nothing more, nothing less.

That sums it up right there. If someone is willing to pay 200k for it, then it's worth 200k. That doesn't mean that every other car like it is also worth 200k, just that THAT car was worth 200k.

Of course, I highly doubt it will sell for 200k. And Frankly, for 200k, I'd rather buy a McClusky completion CSX.

[JWheaton]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

That sums it up right there. If someone is willing to pay 200k for it, then it's worth 200k. That doesn't mean that every other car like it is also worth 200k, just that THAT car was worth 200k.

Of course, I highly doubt it will sell for 200k. And Frankly, for 200k, I'd rather buy a McClusky completion CSX.

Worth and price paid are 2 different things.

I could have a 1 dollar bill in my pocket and some idiot could offer me 10 dollars for it. I would sell it to them, but that 1 dollar would still be worth only 1 dollar.

If someone purchased that car for 200k then that is the price they were willing to pay -- not the worth of the car.

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by JWheaton

Worth and price paid are 2 different things.

I could have a 1 dollar bill in my pocket and some idiot could offer me 10 dollars for it. I would sell it to them, but that 1 dollar would still be worth only 1 dollar.

If someone purchased that car for 200k then that is the price they were willing to pay -- not the worth of the car.

I disagree, but to each his own.

[greg schroeder]

The car sure looks very nice irrelevant to the asking price.

Not in particular to the car in discussion, but I'm curious what kind of final performance a 740 engine HP car of this type delivers with that set up exhaust and such for trap speed and ET at the drag strip? It should be around a high 9 on easy start with a trap speed in the mid 140 mph range? I'm really just curious. Do these cars actually perform as well as their engine HP advertises?

[Excaliber]

No, they don't! Without some serious modifications, which would include all out drag racing tires of enormous size, there is no way to put that much horse power to the ground. Drag racing calculators are NOT accurate because they assume we live in a perfect world. Perfect driver, perfect drive train, perfect traction. WAY to many variables in the real world.

As the car sits right now, as pictured, it would have trouble even hooking up 500 horse power. 1st gear would be a joke of tire smoke if you didn't launch it carefully ie slowly.

[Dan Stryffeler]

Hmmm... interesting example; comparing dollar bills to cars.

Right now on eBay there are 1120 apparent hucksters trying to sell their paper money for more than face value

Dan

[Jamo]

James...you're a good man.

It was probably a toss up between drawing a connection to Baldwin Motion or author of the most common version of the Bible when the script was being thought up.

Let's cut to the chase...the guy selling the car is full of sh!t.

[lineslinger]

Originally Posted by Jamo

James...you're a good man.

It was probably a toss up between drawing a connection to Baldwin Motion or author of the most common version of the Bible when the script was being thought up.

Let's cut to the chase...the guy selling the car is full of sh!t.

Yup!

[greg schroeder]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

No, they don't! Without some serious modifications, which would include all out drag racing tires of enormous size, there is no way to put that much horse power to the ground. Drag racing calculators are NOT accurate because they assume we live in a perfect world. Perfect driver, perfect drive train, perfect traction. WAY to many variables in the real world.

As the car sits right now, as pictured, it would have trouble even hooking up 500 horse power. 1st gear would be a joke of tire smoke if you didn't launch it carefully ie slowly.

For a 740 engine HP 2700lb car less 18% power once to the wheels the perfect world would be 144 mph with 9.4s. Figure the car can't hook at all and the day is a DA of around 2000 ft and the run is terrible, do they still trap high 130s mph in the low 10s? I'm really curious.

I think the reality is most cars aren't making anywhere near engine HP once they get to the wheels. It's not really a big deal, but from what I can tell trap speeds are pretty close to reality for actual wheel power. My trap when on simple drag radials, speed calculator, comes out near exact to the actual wheel dyno. I think you're right about ET calculators, simply because Cobras generally don't knock off the best 60ft times.

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by greg schroeder

For a 740 engine HP 2700lb car less 18% power once to the wheels the perfect world would be 144 mph with 9.4s. Figure the car can't hook at all and the day is a DA of around 2000 ft and the run is terrible, do they still trap high 130s mph in the low 10s? I'm really curious.

I think the reality is most cars aren't making anywhere near engine HP once they get to the wheels. It's not really a big deal, but from what I can tell trap speeds are pretty close to reality for actual wheel power. My trap when on simple drag radials, speed calculator, comes out near exact to the actual wheel dyno. I think you're right about ET calculators, simply because Cobras generally don't knock off the best 60ft times.

IF that motor really makes 740 hp on an engine dyno, I would suspect that car should be putting about 575-600 to the wheels. Yes, you lose that much on a Cobra through the IRS and sidepipes.

Then, factor in the poor 60fts, and I would say even with a good driver, that's an 11.0 car. I am sure the trap speed would show the hp potential of the car, but it's not going to ET as good as it traps.

Put that motor in a Mustang, or a live axle Cobra with open exhaust, and you just could see 9.90s from it.

[427SnakeSC]

I just google'd CSX 4331 and according to the website, that came up, it was sold Mar. 26/07. The asking price then was $169,000. Some one is making some money!

[James Baldwin]

Rob at Keith Craft Motorsports in Dallas may need to correct me with the exact numbers but I believe he dynoed the car during tuning and without pushing it too hard, he got 592hp to the wheels at only 5000rpm... The engine alone was at 7200rpm when it made the 738hp on the engine dyno. So I believe it is reasonable to say it is probably in the mid-upper 600s to the rear wheels when pushed to 6000 or above

[REAL 1]

So then if Mr. Wheaton says what a willing buyer and a willing seller exchange at doesn't set the value of the item then perhaps he has a new definition of value? Please enlighten us.

If a person pays $10 for a $1 dollar bill, then that $1 dollar bill has a value of $10 to at least that person or perhaps that $1 bill has other intrinsic value such as being a $1 bill from JFK's wallet (assuming you could document it) as an example.

Original Cobras have trade up and down the scale as far as price over years. Now they're on a high.

Values of aluminum continuation Cobras have increased from 2000-2001 to present. Fact. Fact, they are difficult to find and there is a lengthly wait.

While some "people" choose to post pictures of crack addicts to express their "view of the value of the car", thats their view but unfortunately for them not the value of the car.

If the car previously sold for $170K the asking price is only 15% above its prevoius selling price. If the car doesn't fetch $200K then its not worth $200K. If it does, it is.

I do agree that values of continuaiton series will likely not soar like originals unless production stops on all or at least aluminum cars but regardless I'd rather have my money in a Shelby original or continuation series then a replica of a Shelby any day of the week.

[Chaplin]

Evan, of course, is like a moth to light, but I would be disappointed if it were otherwise.

But Wheaton does raise an interesting point regarding intrinsic value v. market value. Another example- If I am selling gold and the current market price of gold is $500/ounce, but someone pays me $600/ounce for the gold I'm selling, does that make the gold I sold worth $100 more an ounce than all the other gold out there, or is the buyer simply an idiot?

[REAL 1]

Maybe he knows something you don't. Like the market going to $700.00.

Market values are set by buyers and sellers. Sometimes it just takes one buyer/seller to set the market (other buyers and sellers) going.

If buyers are willing to pay $600.00 for $500.00 dollars worth of gold then that gold is now worth $600.00.

Intrinsic value is completely different from market value. Gold doesn't have an intrinic value it has a value set by the market. Otherwise it has no greater value then lead.

I didn't see JWheatons point as a good point.

Of course I saw my point as a good point though!

[JWheaton]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Maybe he knows something you don't. Like the market going to $700.00.

Market values are set by buyers and sellers. Sometimes it just takes one buyer/seller to set the market (other buyers and sellers) going.

If buyers are willing to pay $600.00 for $500.00 dollars worth of gold then that gold is now worth $600.00.

Intrinsic value is completely different from market value. Gold doesn't have an intrinic value it has a value set by the market. Otherwise it has no greater value then lead.

I didn't see JWheatons point as a good point.

Of course I saw my point as a good point though!

Do you EVER see anyone else's point as good?

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by JWheaton

Do you EVER see anyone else's point as good?

Point made.