Insurance Problems

[olddog]

I have to speak out on the speeding ticket issue. I live in a small village where the police department and Mayors court is, for the most part, funded by traffic tickets. They are not as bad as they were 30 years ago. Back then they used to write tickets for 26 MPH in a 25 MPH zone. Now it takes 28 MPH to get a ticket.

Some states have the speed limit set 65 others 75. So you can get a ticket in one state at a speed that is permitted two miles on the other side of a boarder. When you get in the mountains, it is easy to coast over the limit on the down hill side, and sometimes it is a fuel advantage to get a run for the next hill.

So to my point, there are a bunch of speeding tickets written that are chicken $hit, and have nothing to do with safety or reckless driving. It may have more to do with where you drive than how you drive.

I believe that more attention to the details are required than an arbitrary number of speeding tickets. Is three tickets for 58 in a 55 zone on an interstate worse than one 90 in a 20 mph school zone? Only an idiot would say yes.

[Midwest Classic]

I like the class idea but really the people that are the problem with the insurance and these cars are not those that take classes, participate in clubs, forums and other things of the sport. The people are just like mentioned earlier probably getting more than the bargained for. The only tough thing is weeding them out. The rates for these cars are extremely fair right now so getting a discount over and above for taking the course would probably not fly. Taking the course to keep the good rates probably would. Similar to the safety course and insurance credits given for State Cycle classes.

Mark asked about insurance rates and yes they do take the things you mentioned into consideration but they also consider damage repairablity. The harder or more costly a car is to repair damage this also determines a rating. Back in the 70's some car manufacturers kind of fibbed on engine to HP ratios just to keep insurance costs down and sell cars. The "sports car" was a no thank you in the eyes of the insurance company.

[Naumoff]

driving classes in the Cobra would be the best way to show the limits of the vehicle you are driving. It could be orginized though local clubs with a driving school approved by the insurance company.
I have gone through a few SCCA Solo driving classes and they are very good.
I can push my car to the limit in a safe enviroment and know not to drive like an idiot on the road.
But I think that everyone should take these clases no matter what.

[Midwest Classic]

We generally look at speeding tickets by the amount over the limit not at the speed of the ticket. One of the claims we had was speeding in excess of a safe limit, ironically it was one of the larger claims. Went around a corner and lost control of the vehicle running into the rail. I think he had the car for about 6 months.

The school is a great idea if we could get people to attend. I guess the only no tickey no laundry might work.

[Midwest Classic]

I am going to check out some events in the Midwest area, it would be nice to get to some just to talk and meet owners. BTW even though I don't have a Cobra I do have my own collector cars that I drive. Nothing eractic but some I enjoy having fun with.

[olddog]

Originally Posted by Midwest Classic

I am going to check out some events in the Midwest area, it would be nice to get to some just to talk and meet owners. BTW even though I don't have a Cobra I do have my own collector cars that I drive. Nothing eractic but some I enjoy having fun with.

This is an interesting idea. I'm not against it, but I would hate to have to drive 500 miles to go to the class, since I'm already limitted to 3000 miles.

I think there is a risk here. Someone has to file a claim for damages occurred at one of these classes, and it is not going to look good.

What's the cost of these classes?

[STL Mark]

I too like the class idea - but will I be "covered" at a class/track event. Seriously - what if you have an "accident" during a class that takes place at a race track?

[Slick61]

I've had mine a week and I've already been checking out driving courses. There are even courses available where you're driving Factory Fives... or can bring your own.

Like Spiderman's uncle says... "with great power comes great responsibility"

Being one of those who had not driven one before purchase, I was surprised at how easy it was to drive... actually pretty docile around town, though definitely not its forte. Clutch is a bit too stiff, pipes are WAY too loud, and the engine is really not happy loafing around town. Which is fine... that's not why I bought it.

I was a nervous wreck the first time out, as I hadn't driven a stick in almost 3 years- but did fine save for a few jerky starts. Pedal placement definitely requires an adjustment period.

My foot's probably not as heavy as some (most)... I bought the car more for the visceral characteristics and handling than brute horsepower (though it's got that too). Am starting to get a little miffed when I take people for rides & they want me to wring it out... not gonna happen... especially at my level of inexperience. I told myself when I bought it that I was NOT going to end up in a YouTube video! I endeavor to try & drive it as smoothly and competently as possible (a tall order with the cam I've got). Luckily, I have plenty of desolate areas close-by for spirited (NOT AGGRESSIVE) driving... but will wait til I'm a bit more comfortable with the car & its performance.

Most of the courses I've seen are around $1000 per day, $500 if you bring your own car. Sounds like money well spent for the knowledge acquired, & is definitely in my future.

[rbray]

Robbin,
Here are my thoughts.
I'm guessing that many claims come from new Cobra owners.

Maybe you could give new owners the choice of attending a professional driving school and paying the normal premium or have them pay a probationary rate of $3000.00 for their first year of coverage.
If they are claim free after the first year they can get coverage at the normal rates.

[Cobrabill]

Originally Posted by madmaxx

I feel past experience/driving history is relevant. If individual have a number of speeding tickes or wrecks do not write them a policy.

What does speeding have to do with driving ability?If you have a crap load of speeding tickets and NO ACCIDENTS,that means you are a GOOD driver deserving lower rates.

[fsstnotch]

Originally Posted by Cobrabill

What does speeding have to do with driving ability?If you have a crap load of speeding tickets and NO ACCIDENTS,that means you are a GOOD driver deserving lower rates.

Or your time just hasn't come up?

I agree with alot of what is said here. But like somebody said, it's not the people who built their car and understand what it's about that are having these wrecks. It's the guys that have little or NO experience with a high performance cars that are losing control. How many of these claims were "at fault?" I wouldn't count "no fault" accidents against cobra owners. It's no different than if I am out in a brand new Z06 and get rearended. It's gonna be $$$ to fix and my insurance will still be relatively low.

I've had fast cars since I was able to drive. I have no tickets on my record (2 speeding tickets, both reduced to lower charges, both were under 10mph over the limit) and have never been in an accident. I'm married with a 2 yr old daughter. I drive very resonsibly as I know what a powerful car is capable of and I respect them. Did I mention I am 25? My biggest fear when I get my car on the road (got my chassis number BTW HM1104) is sitting at a light or in stopped traffic and one of the BAD drivers on the road rearends me. The car is made of fiberglass. It's going to take a beating!!! I just hope that I am not an innocent victim!

I'd like to see statistics on accident claims due to distraction such as cell phones, eating, makeup, etc etc. I'm sure the numbers are staggering! I always refer to an accident I followed on another board. This guy finally gets his 68 camaro back on the road. Estimated worth around $100,000. He drives it 1 week when he gets caught in stopped highway traffic and gets rearended by a truck. Damage.. about $25-30k. Cause, the driver of the truck was "taking a drink." Estimated speed at impact was about 35mph. Switch that camaro with a cobra and you likely have total loss and possibly... Death.

Link to pics of the damge, you will see it doesn't look too bad really....
http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/show...ighlight=penny

And here's a pair of links on the insuing insurance battle
http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/show...ighlight=penny
http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/show...ighlight=penny


Very good thread! I hope that by the time I have my cobra ready for the road, I'll still be insurable!

Josh

[RedEsprit]

Good thread and worth another 2 cents. First, although the power of a Cobra can get you into trouble if you don't know how to use it, these cars can also get you out of trouble if you are skilled and have the driving knowledge. From an accident AVOIDANCE standpoint, I would much rather be driving my Cobra or Lotus when some moron pulls out in front of me on Highway 41 than to be hauling down a Lincoln Navigator. These cars will do amazing things if you're a truly, skilled, competent driver and ask them in the right way.

Second, give me a policy that looks like this. $1,000 to $1,500 per year with no mileage limits on driving. These are high performance cars and I expect a higher annual premium than I'm paying now ($390 AARP / Hartford). (Not complaining understand.) Give me a $250 annual credit on that premium if I attend a REAL safe/defensive driver school at Barber or Bondurant. Cover me 100% for theft, fire, vandalism, uninsured drivers, and any accident at which I'm not at fault. Give me a $2,500 deduct. and a MAXIMUM $25,000 coverage (payout) on any accident that is my fault (deer, wolverines, guard rails, babes with amazing boobs at the naked car wash, etc.) Let the insurer pay no more than 50% of the costs of repair for anything that is my fault. No coverage for competition or track events, PERIOD. Forgive any (nuisance) ticket(s) that is (are) 10mph or less over the speed limit. These things are usually the result of speed traps and have no bearing on anything other than lining the Sheriff's pocket (and currently the insurance company's pocket also). Increase rate accordingly for infractions greater than that. I'll buy that policy any day. Right now. Sign me up. Where do I send the check?

With the club and organization events available to us, we all have the a ability to enjoy mucho track time and to get the need for speed out of our system in the proper environment. These cars are great fun and meant (and deserve) to be driven hard and enthusiastically at the right time and place. Learn to drive them and learn their limits and their ABILITIES. High performance means just that but it works both ways. Respect their power but also learn how to throw them around a bit and avoid the idiots (and deer). You wreck it...its your fault...you pay. We're all big boys (and girls) here. That's why we own these cars in the first place. You wreck it, you will be more careful next time if its your wallet that gets dinged!

Have Barber / Bondurant put together an accident avoidance / high performance driving program sponsored through the Cobra clubs and held at local tracks. One day of high performance school with your own car and then let it roll into some optional track time. Sounds like a great opportunity to get together with other owners, have a BBQ, and learn something about your cars and driving at the same time.

[Naumoff]

Originally Posted by olddog

This is an interesting idea. I'm not against it, but I would hate to have to drive 500 miles to go to the class, since I'm already limitted to 3000 miles.

I think there is a risk here. Someone has to file a claim for damages occurred at one of these classes, and it is not going to look good.

What's the cost of these classes?

The SCCA Solo classes are held in an empty parking lot with cones and the course is about control of the vehicle.

500 miles? Even if you put 500 miles on the Cobra during the course,which is highly unlikely, it would be the funnest and most educational 500 miles you put on your car. One of the problems with wrecking your Cobra is not enough seat time because you are unfamiliar with the car.

[nevermind65]

I think this is all a bunch of hoopla. Yes, I agree that you cannot lose money on insuring cars, but the amount of accidents posted earlier in this thread (6 if I recall) seems like a pretty small amount.

If you go on Ebay, you will see around 40-60 Cobras for sale. In my opinion, that is a lot. For a car that is basically a luxury/recreational vehicle, there are a lot of them being sold and obviously, driven. Then visit the FFCobra forum and see how many new ones are being assembled. Their status as being unique and rare is disappearing fast.

Maybe it is time to drop the special mileage limitations and start insuring them as more of a normal car? Your insurance might go up, but at least you will still be able to insure the vehicle.

[CobraDan]

The reason insurance companies started to drop Cobra owners was that most collector cars never leave the garage and if the do they are taken to a local car show therefore very few claims unlike the Cobra. I personally know of reading more than once of both the driver and the passenger of a Cobra being involved in a high speed crash killing both, plus injuries and death in the second car involved in the accidents. Now with million dollar claims the insurance companies had to drop the Cobra, how many insured Cobras does it take to make up a million dollar claim?

[trs900]

If all of the Cobra drivers lived here in southeast Florida they would not have to worry about deer, curves in road as there are very few, they would just have to learn to dodge the old people driving who can't see over the steering wheel.. here in Florida it seems the insurance companies are just looking for any accuse to dump policy holders and unfortunately they are accomplishing their goal.. when I first started looking for insurance 3 years ago for the Cobra I was a little concerned that I might not like what I would have to pay then finally found a company that was very reasonable, I presently insure 7different vehicles boats etc and if insurance goes up to much I will be getting rid of some of them as the fun to cost factor will start to play into it, especially when the wife finds out
I have been considering buying a mo-ped as you don't have to have insurance but life insurance would be a safe bet as I will probably get run over by some little old lady.

[Midwest Classic]

Most Companies offer a higher limit that 3,000 and can change that at the anniversary. We have 5,000 & 6,000 so the additional 500 would not be a problem if you were willing to increase the mileage tier.

Insurance Companies are regulated by the State Department of Insurance. They have to approve any filings a Company would like to do. It may be hard to get a special rate for the inexperienced operator but it may not. The problem you run into is when I ask someone what experience they have with these they have all driven or owned them in the past.

As far as speeding and accidents go, we underwrite it with 1 only of either so we would not be writing someone with a lot of tickets. Generally the two sitations that result in claims are excessive speed or deer, funny though I don't think we have had a deer hit a Cobra. The damage was always when they drove off the road avoiding them. Not saying people are being dishonest about the deer thing but.

I agree with Spiderman's uncle.

[Midwest Classic]

Originally Posted by nevermind65

I think this is all a bunch of hoopla. Yes, I agree that you cannot lose money on insuring cars, but the amount of accidents posted earlier in this thread (6 if I recall) seems like a pretty small amount.

If you go on Ebay, you will see around 40-60 Cobras for sale. In my opinion, that is a lot. For a car that is basically a luxury/recreational vehicle, there are a lot of them being sold and obviously, driven. Then visit the FFCobra forum and see how many new ones are being assembled. Their status as being unique and rare is disappearing fast.

Maybe it is time to drop the special mileage limitations and start insuring them as more of a normal car? Your insurance might go up, but at least you will still be able to insure the vehicle.

nevermind65 you missed my point. Sure there are 40-50 Cobras on sale at EBAY but how many other cars are on sale total. When we have had 10 claims in excess of $10,000 and 7 of these are Cobras, that is way too high. If numbers are correct then we should figure 70% of all claims above $10,000 will be the result of Cobras, it is pretty easy for an Insurance Company to limit their losses, like Hagerty has, by deciding not to insure these vehicles.

[fsstnotch]

In all honesty, I think I'd rather drive off the road than be decapitated by a 170-200lb deer! But that's just me.

Josh

[Midwest Classic]

Originally Posted by CobraDan

The reason insurance companies started to drop Cobra owners was that most collector cars never leave the garage and if the do they are taken to a local car show therefore very few claims unlike the Cobra. I personally know of reading more than once of both the driver and the passenger of a Cobra being involved in a high speed crash killing both, plus injuries and death in the second car involved in the accidents. Now with million dollar claims the insurance companies had to drop the Cobra, how many insured Cobras does it take to make up a million dollar claim?

The reason most regular insurance companies do not write Cobras is they do not understand them. The reason Collector car companies continue to monitor the Cobra insurance is due to high losses.

I somewhat disagree with you about other collector car owners leaving their cars in the garage. The original bone stock vehicles probably only see 1500 miles a year in many cases but the modified/Street Rod type vehicle will see anything from 2500-5000 or more miles a year. I know I drive my vehicles collectively about 4000 miles a year until this year when I have been too busy to get out as much.

It is not the number of miles that people put on vehicles that are a problem, it is the way they put them on.

Almost forgot to reply - "how many insured Cobras does it take to make up a million dollar claim?" - answer 1. But that same answer will apply to the Yugo as well.