Insurance Problems - Page 8

Midwest Classic · #**141** (**permalink**) 08-08-2007, 03:29 PM

Tony,

I agree with you kind of the typical babe magnet bandwagon.

Pesonally I have the non-magnetic cars, Corvair, Gremlin, Panel Truck, Street Rod you know things like that. I enjoy driving them as well. I like to get someplace and I like to get home. I don't want the time in between spent in a hospital or body shop. You know if you want to show off your car slow down so people can see it.

Robbin

WarrenG · #**142** (**permalink**) 08-08-2007, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midwest Classic

Tony,

I agree with you kind of the typical babe magnet bandwagon.

Pesonally I have the non-magnetic cars, Corvair, Gremlin, Panel Truck, Street Rod you know things like that. I enjoy driving them as well. I like to get someplace and I like to get home. I don't want the time in between spent in a hospital or body shop. You know if you want to show off your car slow down so people can see it.

Robbin

Actually a 1965 Corvair was my first "sports"car. It was also the first car to prove to me (at age 17) that less power doesn't mean safer. I was to find out first hand that cars have performance limits (in this case cornering) and they don't drive well "upsidedown." All four of us walked away uninjured. Even though the car was a total loss, I considered it a relatively inexpensive lesson since nobody was hurt and one that has stuck with me for almost 40 years.

Burgs · #**143** (**permalink**) 08-08-2007, 04:27 PM

Up here in Michigan, there is a campaign that starts in the fall, trying to reduce personal injuries resulting from off road excursions trying to avoid deer,... the deer is fine, and well you can imagine the possibilities.

Do NOT veer for deer!

You will drive right under/thru them. You might get hurt, but at least you wont drive into a tree, or oncoming traffic. There will be no question that you hit a deer, when it comes time to deal with the authorities, and your insurance company.

olddog · #**144** (**permalink**) 08-08-2007, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midwest Classic

Approximately 10% of our book of business is from Cobra owners but yet we see more activity from them in claims, above $10,000, than the other 90% of all other clients we insure. There is an obvious problem and I am trying to get a grasp on how to fix it before another Cobra market so no thanks to the industry. Sure there will always be someone out there to write the cars if one carrier leaves but the more carriers that walk away from them the more the next carrier is going to consider to follow suit. Keep in mind Companies are in the business to write business not look for ways to avoid it.

Robbin,

I agree that your numbers show there is problem, however 7 claims is not enough data to give us a useful statistic as to what factors of ownership are contributing to the accidents (in my opinion).

olddog · #**145** (**permalink**) 08-08-2007, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burgs

Do NOT veer for deer!

You will drive right under/thru them. You might get hurt, but at least you wont drive into a tree, or oncoming traffic. There will be no question that you hit a deer, when it comes time to deal with the authorities, and your insurance company.

In a normal car, I would not veer to miss a deer. In a Cobra, I don't know. It looks to me like a deer would be on top of you kicking them hooves and ripping you apart.

Burgs · #**146** (**permalink**) 08-08-2007, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by olddog

In a normal car, I would not veer to miss a deer. In a Cobra, I don't know. It looks to me like a deer would be on top of you kicking them hooves and ripping you apart.

Well then take what's behind door number two or three!

Chances are the deer will be flipped up in the air and land behind you.

jwd · #**147** (**permalink**) 08-08-2007, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burgs

Chances are the deer will be flipped up in the air and land behind you.

Or you can slam on the brakes so your front end drops, then the deer will just slide across the hood, come through the windshield and kill you. That's exactly what happened to my brothers friend. I'll still swerve if I can, if not, I'll duck.

Midwest Classic · #**148** (**permalink**) 08-08-2007, 07:00 PM

As an insurance agent this is what I see. I need to do a better job at underwriting the risk when I have 10 claims in 3 years each more than $10,000 (and most were a lot more) and 7 of these are Cobras. I went to this Forum for thoughts and ideas and they have been great. I could not have asked for more information provided by the people on this site.

I had a Company pull out of my office because we had a bad loss ratio due to hail storms, straight line winds, and tornados. I could not control these claims but the Company did not care, it cost me personally about $15,000 a year in loss of revenue. I don't want to run into the same problem with Collector Car business as I have a lot more to lose. I am just going to be a little more careful and cautios on the owner vs experience vs horsepower as many have state on the site.

Midwest Classic · #**149** (**permalink**) 08-08-2007, 07:07 PM

Any time deer are involved it's a tough call which way to go. With your regular car I agree, hit the thing. With a Cobra that's tough, you can go off the road and hope there is nothing there but if you don't know the area I would probably take my chances with slamming on the brakes and hitting the deer. My son wrecked a '66 Mustang when a deer came out he went off the road in a nice grassed area only he hit a road sign head on that was 4x4 post. The post broke off at the bumper of the car and hit the windshield right where he was sitting. If he was not thinking quick enough he probably would have ate this post.

I mentioned earlier I was on the rescue squad. Just about every vehicle accident I have been on when a vehicle has gone off the road has rolled, especially when driven at an above normal speed. Hitting the deer with the Cobra or rolling a Cobra, sounds like a hindsight 20-20 decision to me.

lucforce · #**150** (**permalink**) 08-08-2007, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midwest Classic

I don't remember stating I did not wish to research anything. This is by far NOT our one largest insured model. Corvettes and Mustangs far our rank the Cobra numbers in my office with the exception of claim numbers. I don't think you read the entire thread as I did mention about three years of claims. What got my attention is the one quarter with four large claims all from Cobra owners.

I am not stirring up anything, I have the numbers and shared them to prove why I felt there was a concern. I guess you missed the part about Hagerty also not writing Cobras due to past claims history. I suppose I could drop an email to the VP that I work with from the Company but then I would be bringing it to their attention and I don't think that is something that most owners would like.

If you are trying to push my buttons, sorry not going to happen. If I saw problems with Corvairs I would be contacting Corsa to let them know there was a problem. You obviously have not read the threads where people have made suggestions on what to do to help tighten things. These are car owners that appreciate their cars and the fact that someone is trying to help them. Read the entire thread from start to finish, nobody, with the exception of yourself, has thought I am trying to stir something up. Have a great day

I am acknowledging that I have read your response. Additionally...I shall leave no further responses to your comments. Take that any way you wish as I am simply seeking evidence of the "issue."

Burgs · #**151** (**permalink**) 08-08-2007, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwd

Or you can slam on the brakes so your front end drops, then the deer will just slide across the hood, come through the windshield and kill you. That's exactly what happened to my brothers friend. I'll still swerve if I can, if not, I'll duck.

Sad story indeed!

The county I live in has the most car-deer collisions in the state. I can't tell you how many times I have missed by inches in my daily drivers, almost always at highway speeds, and with no time to react. I have seen one to many, bad roll over accidents at highway speeds, that I will do just about anything to stay pointed straight ahead. Knowing how the windscreen is attached, I hope I never have to rely on that stopping anything big.

Cobrabill · #**152** (**permalink**) 08-08-2007, 10:43 PM

Comparing buying an airplane to buying a Cobra?

WarrenG · #**153** (**permalink**) 08-08-2007, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobrabill

Comparing buying an airplane to buying a Cobra?

Not too far fetched when you figure that most cobras will go faster than many light planes!

fsstnotch · #**154** (**permalink**) 08-09-2007, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobrabill

Comparing buying an airplane to buying a Cobra?

Well if that is the only response you have to my MORONIC reply, then I guess I proved my point.

The comparison was to prove my point that anyone can walk into a dealership and buy a cobra. Much like I could go on ebay and buy an airplane. Without any experience, I guarantee with enough open area I can get that plane off the ground. Some people have no business in an airplane.. and some people have no business in a cobra... NOBODY has any business in either without a little experience!

IMO,(ugh oh, I have another one) the dealerships should require some form of drivers safety classes before selling the car. Especially companies like BDR, SPF, etc which sell the cars regularly. I think if they were more responsible dealers... we would have more responsible drivers! You know who you are if you have no experience and no business behind the wheel of a performance car. nuff said!

Josh

WarrenG · #**155** (**permalink**) 08-09-2007, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fsstnotch

Well if that is the only response you have to my MORONIC reply, then I guess I proved my point.

The comparison was to prove my point that anyone can walk into a dealership and buy a cobra. Much like I could go on ebay and buy an airplane. Without any experience, I guarantee with enough open area I can get that plane off the ground. Some people have no business in an airplane.. and some people have no business in a cobra... NOBODY has any business in either without a little experience!

IMO,(ugh oh, I have another one) the dealerships should require some form of drivers safety classes before selling the car. Especially companies like BDR, SPF, etc which sell the cars regularly. I think if they were more responsible dealers... we would have more responsible drivers! You know who you are if you have no experience and no business behind the wheel of a performance car. nuff said!

Josh

Josh,
You could in fact with enough open ground get that aircraft off the ground. In fact you could probably get away with it at most airports, but without any experience or certificate, you'd also be without insurance which was the point of my last reply. You'd also be without insurance coverage if you had a license but were not type-rated in the aircraft.

Your idea to have the dealerships require evidence of completion of driver safety course would be one solution. Another would be to have the dealer or manufacture include a safety course, classroom and road time, with the purchase of the car. Some aircraft manufactures include pilot training in the price of their more HP and complex aircraft.

Of course that wouldn't solve the problem with the secondary (used) car market. Then it would be up to the insurance company to require HP driving safety classes for the driver/owner to get insurance. States requiring proof of insurance prior to registration of a vehicle might bring a little more of assurance of safety to the driving of HP vehicles.

Unfortunately, we'll probably never be able to stop the many who prefer to circumvent any system that might be developed.

fsstnotch · #**156** (**permalink**) 08-09-2007, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarrenG

Josh,
You could in fact with enough open ground get that aircraft off the ground. In fact you could probably get away with it at most airports, but without any experience or certificate, you'd also be without insurance which was the point of my last reply. You'd also be without insurance coverage if you had a license but were not type-rated in the aircraft.

Your idea to have the dealerships require evidence of completion of driver safety course would be one solution. Another would be to have the dealer or manufacture include a safety course, classroom and road time, with the purchase of the car. Some aircraft manufactures include pilot training in the price of their more HP and complex aircraft.

Of course that wouldn't solve the problem with the secondary (used) car market. Then it would be up to the insurance company to require HP driving safety classes for the driver/owner to get insurance. States requiring proof of insurance prior to registration of a vehicle might bring a little more of assurance of safety to the driving of HP vehicles.

Unfortunately, we'll probably never be able to stop the many who prefer to circumvent any system that might be developed.

I completely agree with every bit of this post.

Maybe it needs to be taken to the state DMV level? No registration without proof of proper training? Kind of like when you go for a motorcycle license? That would catch everyone.

Josh

Cobrabill · #**157** (**permalink**) 08-10-2007, 08:04 AM

O.K.-now where do you draw the line at vehicle types that need a special license?

fsstnotch · #**158** (**permalink**) 08-10-2007, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobrabill

O.K.-now where do you draw the line at vehicle types that need a special license?

Hmmm... good question. You really can't limit HP because then we'd all make a loophole and all car manufacturers would go back to underrating their HP numbers.

Maybe make a KIT license? But then... would cars like the BDR, SPF, etc fit into the KIT catagory?

I got the best idea yet... RESPONSIBLE DRIVERS! haha We are all adults! Unfortunately, that will never happen!

Josh

imagine2frolic · #**159** (**permalink**) 08-10-2007, 11:55 AM

I have read this thread, and there are lots of suggestions. I think the only one will be for people to use COMMON SENSE. Seems like few use it anymore. You have to crawl before you can run. I think the most enlightning thing typed so far is from the track guys. They vent that urge to drive hard on the track, and take responsibility for what happens.

There are millions of cars on the road, and ACCIDENTS are going to happen. There are just to many variables going on when you drive. You can't fix STUPID, and some behaviours are just plain stupid. I was lucky when I was very young I owned a Tiger. In my stupidity I never got a ticket, caused someone else, or myself harm.

A lot of suggestions here are asking for Big Brother to step in, and control our behaviour. We need to control our own.The car is a beast, and the urge to drive it that way will be impossible for some to resist. An insurance company should cover an accident, but not STUPID.

Slick61 · #**160** (**permalink**) 08-10-2007, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fsstnotch

Maybe it needs to be taken to the state DMV level?

you obviously haven't dealt with Kalifornia DMV before...

The last thing we need is more governmental regulation/intervention. However good the intent may be going in... the outcome would most likely be grotesquely mutilated into some horrid piece of legislation that causes more misery than it ever hoped to prevent. Too much influence from special interest groups & the ever-present lunatic fringe. If excessive claims become a major issue, the market/industry will correct that on its own. I say let's help the industry find a solution... not look to the government to do it.

two words... PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY!!!