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CC Advertisers
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09-26-2007, 08:14 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Atlanta,
GA
Cobra Make, Engine: CAV GT40 with 331 KC
Posts: 2,187
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Not Ranked
Hey - what happened to the dog sniffing post?
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09-26-2007, 09:46 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Corona del Mar,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine: FFR MKIII, FMS BOSS 302 "B" cam
Posts: 170
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Not Ranked
What a scam. I love Kirkhams. But the only cars that should be in the registry are Shelbys. Period. The Kirkham is a great car but it doesn't belong in the registry any more than my Factory Five does.
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09-26-2007, 10:55 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2007
Cobra Make, Engine: CSX4000 w/CSXblock
Posts: 77
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Not Ranked
I agree w/CNGreen
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09-26-2007, 10:57 AM
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Super Moderator
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Fresno,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine: KMP 184/482ci Shelby
Posts: 14,445
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Not Ranked
Editing a post AFTER a reply and is not well taken...a sticky thread warning against it in the future is now at the top of the Forum page.
It's called manners.
__________________
Jamo
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09-26-2007, 11:21 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2000
Location: Northern VA,
VA
Cobra Make, Engine: Classic Roadsters
Posts: 2,765
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Not Ranked
Maybe if they were painted, . . . . like real Cobras 
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__________________
LIFE IS TOO SHORT TO WORRY ABOUT GOOD GAS MILEAGE
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Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
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09-26-2007, 12:27 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: New Jersey,
N.J
Cobra Make, Engine: Shelby Cobra CSX4206 aluminum body, original 1965 NASCAR 427 SO, Dual quads.
Posts: 3,897
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Not Ranked
No, No. Kirkhams do belong in the Registry. I have no issue with this. They have a definite Shelby connection by way of their supply of the aluminum rollers for SAI in the past (and now????Hmmm) and their exact duplication/cloning of the specifications of the original car, which many would argue is an improvement over the original in fit, finish and materials used. Anyway, its akin to COB and COX being included vis a vis the originals. AC supplied the rollers then and had the right to use the name "Cobra" in the old days.
There a definite justification and analogy based on the past. Whats fair is fair.
No issue here.
On the down side for you Kirkham owners, hate to burst bubbles here, there is no concomitant statement from SAAC that Kirkhams are also considered "genuine Cobras" and based on their previous statements I don't see them doing so. The only cars considered genuine/real cobras are still the original CSXs Continuation CSXs, COX, and COB series cars. Sorry, they said it not me.
__________________
U.S. Army Rangers. Leading travel agents to Allah.
Last edited by REAL 1; 09-26-2007 at 12:32 PM..
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09-26-2007, 12:30 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2000
Location: Northern VA,
VA
Cobra Make, Engine: Classic Roadsters
Posts: 2,765
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Not Ranked
Quote:
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Originally Posted by REAL 1
There a definite justification and analogy based on the past. Whats fair is fair.
No issue here.
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So it is a matter of "Precedent"
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__________________
LIFE IS TOO SHORT TO WORRY ABOUT GOOD GAS MILEAGE
________
Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
________
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09-26-2007, 12:49 PM
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Super Moderator
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Fresno,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine: KMP 184/482ci Shelby
Posts: 14,445
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Not Ranked
That's ok, Evan...at least we won't have any CSXR angst.
__________________
Jamo
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09-26-2007, 12:58 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Northport,
NY
Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham, KMP178 / '66 GT350H, 4-speed
Posts: 10,362
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Not Ranked
Quote:
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Originally Posted by REAL 1
No, No. Kirkhams do belong in the Registry. ... Anyway, its akin to COB and COX being included vis a vis the originals.
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Right thoughts, Evan...wrong facts, though.
COB and COX are indeed AC products and are originals...and are included in the original Cobra tally.
I think what you were trying to say is that SAAC also includes the Mk IV cars and the Autokraft cars in an additional section. This documents the derivatives and keeps track of the aluminum Cobra look-a-likes.
That was the thought process of SAAC in deciding to include the KMP cars. So many have been the platform for the continuation replicas sold by Shelby Autos (and continue to be their source) that it would make sense to track them, like the others.
Plus the history of KMS is interesting in the overall modern-day Cobra story.
And, of course, being in the book doesn't change any KMP DNA...it's still a fake...but, it's a nice honor to have a place in the book.
...right up there with the CSX4000 replicas from Shelby Autos.  
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09-26-2007, 12:58 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Diego,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine: SPF1715, Roush Built 434 ci Stroker, Dart Block, Ported AFR 205 Heads... 561 hp / 547 tq, Former Roush Show Car, Completed and Prepped By Olthoff Racing.
Posts: 1,066
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Not Ranked
Quote:
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Originally Posted by REAL 1
No, No. Kirkhams do belong in the Registry. I have no issue with this. They have a definite Shelby connection by way of their supply of the aluminum rollers for SAI in the past (and now????Hmmm) and their exact duplication/cloning of the specifications of the original car, which many would argue is an improvement over the original in fit, finish and materials used. Anyway, its akin to COB and COX being included vis a vis the originals. AC supplied the rollers then and had the right to use the name "Cobra" in the old days.
There a definite justification and analogy based on the past. Whats fair is fair.
No issue here.
On the down side for you Kirkham owners, hate to burst bubbles here, there is no concomitant statement from SAAC that Kirkhams are also considered "genuine Cobras" and based on their previous statements I don't see them doing so. The only cars considered genuine/real cobras are still the original CSXs Continuation CSXs, COX, and COB series cars. Sorry, they said it not me.
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Using this logic then what about SPF building CSX's including the fiberglass bodies?
My opinion is that the Kirkham should not be in the registry. I can see the AC cars being there because they were the suppliers of the original rollers but I think you are opening up the registry now to anybody that has supplied parts to Shelby in the making of the CSX's. My.02
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09-26-2007, 01:08 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Northport,
NY
Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham, KMP178 / '66 GT350H, 4-speed
Posts: 10,362
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Not Ranked
Quote:
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Using this logic then what about SPF building CSX's including the fiberglass bodies?
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..a little tricky. You see, SPF does NOT build 'glas CSX's
Hi-Tech, the parent company has taken an outsourced manufacturing contract to fabricate the 'glas CSX to SA specs.
The SPF entity does not enter into this arrangement.
However, the Brock Coupe by SPF, with the Shelby endorsement will be in the next Registry.
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09-26-2007, 01:10 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 15,712
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Not Ranked
As computerworks stated, 'tracking the cars' is an important function of the registry. As time moves forward and potentially values increase with the continuation series cars it is inevitable that somebody will turn a Kirkham into a Shelby. Tracking the Kirkhams will help to identify the 'real' (term used loosely) cars.
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09-26-2007, 01:13 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Cobra Make, Engine: CSX2321
Posts: 1,368
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Not Ranked
Quote:
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Originally Posted by REAL 1
Anyway, its akin to COB and COX being included vis a vis the originals. AC supplied the rollers then and had the right to use the name "Cobra" in the old days.
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As Ron mentioned, "COB and COX are indeed AC products and are originals...and are included in the original Cobra tally." The COB & COX cars were sold complete with engines in most cases. In a few cases they went to 'owners' that had the engines installed.
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09-26-2007, 01:18 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Rocky River, Ohio,
OH
Cobra Make, Engine: Everett-Morrison, 347 Tri-power Stroker
Posts: 678
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Not Ranked
I can understand the logic of including Kirkhams in the registry, at least based on the statements from the SAAC website main page. But I still don't think it is correct to include the cars in a "Shelby" registry, just as I do not think it is correct to include the newer Ford GT.
Just my .02 and not a big deal...
Dan
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09-26-2007, 01:28 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Tampa,
fl
Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham #473 427 every option, Keithcraft aluminum FE 482 ci. Mass Flo FI. Tremec TKO 600.
Posts: 260
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Not Ranked
?????
What is the top of the line Shelby other than a re-labled Kirkham??? Waiting for the expolsion. 
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09-26-2007, 01:33 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Northport,
NY
Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham, KMP178 / '66 GT350H, 4-speed
Posts: 10,362
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Not Ranked
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Murphy
What is the top of the line Shelby other than a re-labled Kirkham??? Waiting for the expolsion. |
I know you did it for the 'gag' value...but, realistically...
...all Shelby Autos procures from KMS is the body, frame and inner panels...and some hardware and other bits.
They do add all their own running gear, suspension and drive line components, as well as all the trim and accessories.
It is not merely a re-badge deal.
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09-26-2007, 01:37 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Corona del Mar,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine: FFR MKIII, FMS BOSS 302 "B" cam
Posts: 170
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Not Ranked
You guys are splitting hairs here. The fact of the matter is that they are NOT Shelby's. It doesn't matter that they source the bodies and/or other parts. It's not a Shelby.
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09-26-2007, 01:40 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 15,712
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Not Ranked
Well niether is a COB or COX a Shelby, but they clearly should be included!
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09-26-2007, 01:41 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2000
Location: Northern VA,
VA
Cobra Make, Engine: Classic Roadsters
Posts: 2,765
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Not Ranked
What means COB & COX ?
.
__________________
LIFE IS TOO SHORT TO WORRY ABOUT GOOD GAS MILEAGE
________
Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
________
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09-26-2007, 01:42 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Northport,
NY
Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham, KMP178 / '66 GT350H, 4-speed
Posts: 10,362
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Not Ranked
...nobody said they were? They are not now, nor ever will be.
Being in the book doesn't make them anything more or less than what they are.
They are just part of the story today.
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