CSX 4000 Series vs. SPF

[maxom]

Hi everyone,
I just joined and I'm looking at buying Superfromance Cobra or CSX 4000 series for about two months now and it's time for meto make up my mind!!
Dynamic in Ohio is giving a good deal on a CSX 4000 series with a 427 Genesis engine. I don't know that much about the engine and live 10 hours away from them. Performance engeneering will be doing the install.
Is the Genesis engine reliable and is Performance engineering very reputable.
On the other hand I have two Superfornance dealers that giving me great deals on Cobras with Rough engine (402 or 427).
Looking forward any feedback.

[Power Surge]

Both are great cars of equal quality. Both will start off costing about the same, but the CSX will hold it's value better, especially with an FE motor in it. The SPF cars you are being offered have stroked 351s in them. They are great motors, and some people consider that the best all around balanced motor for the Cobra. The big 427 FE won't dissapoint either, and IMO looks more impressive under the hood.

You will be just as happy with either of those two cars. If they are priced within 10k of each other, than I'd say the CSX is a no brainer.

Just my 2 cents.

[maxom]

Thanks for the feedback, what about my concern about the genesis engine installed by Performance Engineering?

[Mark IV]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

but the CSX will hold it's value better, especially with an FE motor in it.
Just my 2 cents.

But Evan ALREADY has a car so your potential market has been cut in half!!

Buy what you like, what you get a "good deal" on (a "good deal" is a state of mind and has NOTHING to do with what you pay for the car, are you happy with the car? You got a good deal!!!)

Really, you won't go wrong with either car......perhaps dealer support or such should be the deciding factor.

[Slither]

I agree with Power Surge!!!

[bnewell]

PE did the build/install in my SPF.......it was an awesome car and motor.

[maxom]

Thanks, but again I'm concern about not knowing a lot about the 427 genesis engine that would be in the CSX.... Can anyone give feedback on this engine?

[Stentor]

Genesis refers to the engine block; Genesis is one of the main manufacturers of modern-day 427 blocks (along with Pond and Shelby).

You can do a search on this site to see what's been said about Genesis blocks (I've got a Genesis 427 and a Shelby 427, and had no problems with either).

The engine components and builder are probably more important than the manufacturer of the block. In that regard, do a search on Performance Engineering (PE).

I believe Dynamic is still the largest SPF dealer in the US, and I suspect Performance Engineering does a lot of their engine builds/installations (as PE is located right behind Dynamic).

What's the difference in finished prices between the SPF and CSXs at which you are looking?

[maxom]

About 15K. What do you think?

[RedBarchetta]

If you can afford the $15K diff, then go with the CSX. I really like my SPF, but everyone else is right in that the CSX with an FE will hold its resale value better than the comparably prepared SPF. It's just a fact of the Cobra hobby/marketplace. If you don't care about that level of authenticity (i.e. Shelby tie-in), then save some coin and enjoy the SPF. 99.9% of the people on the road won't be able to tell the difference anyway.

-Dean #747

[Roger Vincent]

Performance Engineering did the engine build (427W - Dart block, AFR Heads) and install on my SPF, 2080, two years ago and I have 7k miles on it. I have had no problems. I believe Eric did and does a fine install. However, if the 15K is not a problem for you, then I would have to go with Power Surge's recommendation for the same reasons he gave. And yes, I am 100 percent satisfied with the SPF.

I am just thinking about resale later on, and of course with the CSX4000 you can say when asked if it's a Cobra, "Why yes it's a Cobra, not original, but a continuation," instead of "Why no it's not a kit car, but it is a factory built replica sold by Superformance, and made by Hi-Tech in South Africa....the SAME company that makes some of Shelby's continuation Cobras....BUT it IS licensed by Shelby....pause, take a breadth...God am I tired of saying that. It might be worth 15K just not to have to tell the same story time after time. Anyway, both Hi-Tech cars are great, and you can't go wrong either way, depends on your purpose, and your bank account. Can't help with the engine, looks like that info has been posted anyway. Good luck!

Roger SPF 2080

[Stentor]

Originally Posted by maxom

About 15K. What do you think?

It really boils down to your personal preferences and budget. The $15k gets you a Shelby Cobra (4000 series, continuation) and a real 427 FE (not bored/stroked small block). As mentioned by others, both of these attributes will likely make the car more attractive to prospective buyers if you ever want to sell it.

I was considering both an SPF and CSX, and ended up going with the CSX (and I've been happy with my decision). Both cars will be nice, and of similar fit and finish.

Do you know the specs of the Genesis FE engine (e.g., displacement, HP, TQ)?

Incidentally, Eric at Performance Engineering used to be a Shelby CSX 4000 dealer, so he should be familiar with the CSX cars and able to do a decent job with the installation/completion (as there are differences in design and components between the CSX and SPF cars).

[Hal Copple]

I am not sure the old quote "never too much horsepower" really applies to a street driven car. These cars are already dangerous and can kill the unwary in a heartbeat. The more power a driver has, the more deadly the car.

I frankly think that engine heat and mpg really are worth thinking about. Even you one doesn't drive much, a big hot monster motor giving 8 mpg gets tiring, not to mention requiring frequent fuel searches.

If one motor (the Genesis) has X horsepower, then would a Cobra replica be somehow better with X+ horsepower? I know people who have upwards of 750 engine ponies in these cars.

In my 120,000 miles in my own Replica, i would bet that other than on the drag strip or race course (I am packed for a day at VIR tuesday), i have less than two minutes at full throttle. Do you really want to pay that kind of money and buy that much gas for a few seconds here and there of full throttle?

I have a stroked windsor, with about 480 horsepower. I already have a better power to weight ratio than a $115K Turbo Porsche 911. What would i do with another 100+ ponies?

The way i see it, if i had another 20 ponies, i would be faster on the race track. If i had another 100 ponies, i would be certainly slower.

These are fabulous cars, unlike just about anything else on the road. But they can kill you in the blink of an eye.

Before you select your motor, make an honest appraisal of what you want to do with your car, and of your own abilities. If Ken Miles called the 427 cars pigs, and unsuited for the track, why would i think I can safely control things.

I know my limits, and am very careful to stay within them.

Sort of like having a mistress with a 38C cup. Would it be better if she were a 55 DDD cup? More is not always better: one can have too much of a good thing.

all the best,

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by Hal Copple

I am not sure the old quote "never too much horsepower" really applies to a street driven car. These cars are already dangerous and can kill the unwary in a heartbeat. The more power a driver has, the more deadly the car.

I frankly think that engine heat and mpg really are worth thinking about. Even you one doesn't drive much, a big hot monster motor giving 8 mpg gets tiring, not to mention requiring frequent fuel searches.

If one motor (the Genesis) has X horsepower, then would a Cobra replica be somehow better with X+ horsepower? I know people who have upwards of 750 engine ponies in these cars.

In my 120,000 miles in my own Replica, i would bet that other than on the drag strip or race course (I am packed for a day at VIR tuesday), i have less than two minutes at full throttle. Do you really want to pay that kind of money and buy that much gas for a few seconds here and there of full throttle?

I have a stroked windsor, with about 480 horsepower. I already have a better power to weight ratio than a $115K Turbo Porsche 911. What would i do with another 100+ ponies?

The way i see it, if i had another 20 ponies, i would be faster on the race track. If i had another 100 ponies, i would be certainly slower.

These are fabulous cars, unlike just about anything else on the road. But they can kill you in the blink of an eye.

Before you select your motor, make an honest appraisal of what you want to do with your car, and of your own abilities. If Ken Miles called the 427 cars pigs, and unsuited for the track, why would i think I can safely control things.

I know my limits, and am very careful to stay within them.

Sort of like having a mistress with a 38C cup. Would it be better if she were a 55 DDD cup? More is not always better: one can have too much of a good thing.

all the best,

Interesting post, although I didn't see what it has to do with this poster's question.

Also, you make a good general point, but didn't say which of the two motor choices he asked about were which in your comparison .

[thudmaster]

Save the 15k for all the options and add-ons neither of these cars come with. Take your bride someplace special in it with the money saved.
superformance is a fine car, its not a shelby cobra but still a fine car.

my two cents..............

[Stentor]

And what did Mr. Shelby say about having "too much power?"

[Archrms]

Maxom,
You didn't mention what state you are located in. I too looked at the Genesis 427 motor. It is marketed as a reproduction block with a vintage date stamp. However, the registration in my state is very strict, and I could find no precedence for someone getiing one of these blocks through inspection. I didn't want to spend the big bucks for an engine I could not get through inspection, so I opted for an original block with authentic stamps and codes.

I would definitely check with your state DMV to see what you have to do to get both engines through inspection. It may make your choice easier if you find a problem with getting one or the other through inspection.

Better to do your reseach now, then to be caught trying to make your engine legal after you purchase it.

[Don]

Having experienced the emissions, inspection and registration process in CT, Archrms has an excellent point. In addition to the emissions test, if there is one, also look at the entire inspection/registration procedure specifically for kit cars and replicas, i.e. no surprises.

Fortunately, for the approx 325 kit cars/replicas and future registrations, CT has exempted as of July 1 the emissions test, but all other requirments remain. Had this not happened, more than likely the new emission standards for kit cars/replicas would have prevented many new registrations, especially for highly modified engines and the block date would not have applied.

[Tony Ripepi]

Hello Max,

I've owned both.......I drove and sold an SPF and currently own CSX4264. They are different cars from the inside out and each has a close and vocal set of owners/fans/etc.

First pay close attention the comments above on the registration issues in your state.....all of the comments above are very valid and relevant. If you are here in California we ned to talk in specific about the details of registration.

The SPF and CSX have different chassis, body attachments, ride and handling characteristics. My SPF had a 460 with the Tremec 5-speed, the CSX has a 427SO with a 4-speed top loader but, they both fell into the Big block definition. Both cars when you were on the rode had the instant on torque that you would expect, the transmissions were different and the 5-speed on the highway was great with the engine turning at 2300- 2500 RPM and the 4-speed keeps it at 3000 - 3200 at cruise. I will keep the 4-speed for the sake of originality but you need to decide what you want.

Fit and finish in both cars are great but, there are differences in the bodies, interior and ride comfort. The SPF wins out for interior comfort and the Shelby gets points for overall ride and handling comfort. For the size of the car the SPF has a very wide turning radius and with the big block you want to change the standard 3:73 rear end gears to a lower ratio for real use of the lower gears from a standing start.

The Shelby, as expected has a body shape closer to the original CSX3xxx cars but beauty is in the eye of the beholder, you need to decide if this is important to you. And the value to you to own a Shelby vs. SPF. They are both replicas and you need to decide which you want to own.

Engines/transmission combination in cars that are built and ready to go and the quality, longevity and long term use are real isssues. If you are considering an existing car, have it surveyed by a trusted (BY YOU) third party, leak test the engine, in depth written appraisal that you pay for.

To really determine what you want take the time to drive both cars, decide on the engine/transmission combination that works for you and then the intrisic value of which replica meets your overall desires.....this is a recreational toy, most of us only drive them weekends and to fun stuff with our significant others.

Back to your original question ------ Drive them both and decide for yourself what is important to you ---- there will always be a deal out there for an existing car. Write down what is important to you and let that be your guide. If you are looking at fibreglass cars the pricing will close but and Aluminum CSX will be a lot more expensive. This time of year is a buyers market and you have leverage ----- use it the 15k delta between them can be made a smaller number.

Have fun, Don't make it a garage queen and enjoy the driving ----- either car will be a joy to have in the garage.

Best Regards,

Tony R.

[maxom]

Thanks to everyone who answered my questions. it was very helpfull, I will let you know what I decide.