CSX vs. Kirkham

[rdorman]

Al, check to the sale price of late model CSX cars on various sites and at various auctions. You will see what the resale is like. Good, but no one is making a living buying CSX cars and flipping them for 150%. No other manufacturer either. The few I have seen go for a premium where special cars (ie: Carroll's car). For that matter, check the Kirkham prices to. Again, no one buying retail and flipping them to make a bunch of money.

[RodKnock]

I can't compare the people at the respective factories since I only spoke and emailed with Joe Weight at Kirkham. What I can say is that Joe Weight is an outstanding Kirkham employee. He's smart, responsive and knows his product. The Kirkhams are very lucky to have him working there.

Ultimately, my final decision was to buy a Kirkham and it was partly based upon owning an aluminum body over the CSX #. Up until the very last moment, the decision could have easily gone the other way. It was really 50.1% versus 49.9% decision for me. That's what mattered to me, but you're different than me and everyone else here.

My thoughts on resale market for each car is as follows. They both cost approximately the same to build (roller plus engine and trans) and both cars can be purchased used for about the same money. At least that's what I gathered over the past 6 +/- months in the market. I know of private party sales (or offers to sell) of both the 'glass CSX and Kirkham cars in the $75,000-$85,000 range +/-. That's today. The future may/will be different.

[jdog]

If you can get a glass CSX car for $75,000, BUY IT! It's a steal! It would cost more to build today. You could still turn it into an alum. car for another $25,000.

Go look at what alum. Shelbys are selling for, TODAY!

rdorman, you'er not a math major are you? $40,000-$50,000 on an $100,000 investment is only 40%-50%, not 150%.

For the sake of argument I will admit that would be on a 'good day' at the auction. I'm pretty sure tha car would bring at least $125,000. Even if you only made $25,000- $30,000 profit, that's not to bad for a year of "hobbying"! How many guys can make a profit from there hobby?

I don't know of anyone 'loosing' money on a CSX car. Anyone?........?

Lets hear from some of the x-Kirkham guys. Did you make all of your money back? Anyone?.....?

Where's Turk?

I rest my case.

And for those who might say, what if the car does not sell? You can 'donate' it to a chairty and write off the current retail price of an aluminum CSX Shelby! Mo money! Mo Money!

Just pulling your leg, I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night, buy the Kirkham!

jdog
P.S. The point I'm really trying to make here is that you can have your cake & eat it too! There is a lot of 'room' in between what alum. Shelby's & glass Shelby's sell for. You could have an Kirkham alum body & CSX number on the dash for a lot less than Shelby is asking for the same thing!

[rdorman]

Not going to argue with you. People are not picking up the phone and making 40-50K on a new CSX car. Sure, some folks see a profit, but some loose also. If it is so easy, every one would be doing it. There are a number of CSX glass cars for sale in that price range just look. Same goes for Kirkham or any other manufacturer for that matter.

[RodKnock]

jdog, I had the opportunity to buy a used 'glass CSX with an aluminum Shelby block for $75,000. I know of another 'glass CSX that sold for low-to-mid 80's. While it may not have been the smartest decision that I've ever made, my choice was to buy a new "naked" Kirkham. In this one specific example, the CSX owner would have lost some money. Trust me, it was a very difficult decision, but the allure of owning a new bare aluminum Cobra, optioned the way I wanted, was greater.

Everyone is different, but that was my personal choice. Al it is your choice and yours alone. Again, not a bad choice in the bushel.

[Jamo]

Enjoying yourself yet, Al?

Given your short time here, you likely were't aware that there's some history on this subject around here (guess you're aware now ).

Let me help you...get the Kirkham.

[thorconstr]

Is Shelby still using Kirkham alloy bodies?

[joey_hv]

Originally Posted by Fox

I would like the large combo... buttered popcorn and a diet coke... This might be a long one

-John

me too...i'm in for the whole thing..ok..i'm ready. dang i missed the beginning!

[RedCSX1]

"rdorman, you'er not a math major are you? $40,000-$50,000 on an $100,000 investment is only 40%-50%, not 150%."

Jdog either are you. No one will get a Shelby roller for under 50K and no one can turn around and sell a roller for 100K. For most people who come into the game late, the cost of a Shelby roller (fiberglass and its painted with 1/2 shafts included) will cost you around 55K. Most will spends another 25K to get it to a finished running machine. So your math is also wrong.

Turk in the end sold a Shelby and not a Kirkham or was it a Turkham that he sold? Or maybe a really good Shelby cobra replica in bare aluminum?

[o'brien]

Was at the vintage race at Las Vegas weekend before last checking on my car and was told by dealer in attendance that Shelby just raised the price of aluminum car/roller by about 15,000.00 I don't know how that will play into your choice because I'm not that smart.

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by o'brien

Was at the vintage race at Las Vegas weekend before last checking on my car and was told by dealer in attendance that Shelby just raised the price of aluminum car/roller by about 15,000.00 I don't know how that will play into your choice because I'm not that smart.

Yes, for whatever reason, Shelby alloy CSX rollers are now 114k.

[767Jockey]

What's the price now for a Kirkham with the proper original type suspension, not the high bling factor billet suspension? If I remember correctly isn't the cost of the original style suspension through the roof - something like a $15,000.00 option?

[Allan A]

Al,

This car just became a deal with the new price increase. With all of its options and paint you would be saving 10k.



http://www.clubcobra.com/classifieds...duct=701&cat=2

[Tony Ripepi]

Allan,

I thought you shipped that car to Dubai??????

Confused,

TR

[lineslinger]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

Yes, for whatever reason, Shelby alloy CSX rollers are now 114k.

No engine. No gearbox, and you pay six figures for it.
A car built with a Kirkham body?
Of course Kirkham has no way of tracking the bodies that come out of their shop. And no way do they keep track that it IS a Kirkham product. Yeah, right, they just concede their quality work to Shelby.
Personal opinion.
Does Shelby build an aluminum body? Nope, someone else does. Just like the sixties. They assemble quality parts, very fancy shop, pissed off some folks in their early days of their resurrection, put the Shelby name plate on it and kick the price up 60% (conservative)?
Once again this seems to boil down to either the quality of the ride, both top notch,... or the name on it returning or holding some futuristic form of investment value.
Consider the price difference.
Consider your preference.
To some the name plate matters, to others not.
You can buy the same level of quality and performance and still not have to pay six figures?
Bragging rights.
Its been said so many times.
If you got the dough and the name plate is that important to you, buck up for a Shelby with a Kirkham body, just like the old days with a Ford engine and and English car, more power to you.
What is your preference?
With the way Shelby is belching out cars, (they are in biz to make money), do you really think your CSX name plate is going to retain the value (money) you paid into it?
Good luck players.

[RodKnock]

One other difference, actually there are many upon many, between the two cars is that the Kirkham does not adhere nearly as much to original as a CSX in terms of specs. A few examples are: 1) the Kirkham has one battery in the trunk. The CSX has two batteries behind the seats like the original, 2) the gauges on the Kirkham have the appearance of Smith's but actually have an LCD display for the odometer and fuel gauge (optional), the CS gauges do not, 3) most CSX's that I ran across have a Toploader for originality, but most later Kirkhams are setup for the TKO600. So, besides the alloy versus fiberglass decision, you will also have to decide on the level of adherance to the original versus subtle "modernization." Again, a very personal choice.

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

One other difference, actually there are many upon many, between the two cars is that the Kirkham does not adhere nearly as much to original as a CSX in terms of specs. A few examples are: 1) the Kirkham has one battery in the trunk. The CSX has two batteries behind the seats like the original, 2) the gauges on the Kirkham have the appearance of Smith's but actually have an LCD display for the odometer and fuel gauge (optional), the CS gauges do not, 3) most CSX's that I ran across have a Toploader for originality, but most later Kirkhams are setup for the TKO600. So, besides the alloy versus fiberglass decision, you will also have to decide on the level of adherance to the original versus subtle "modernization." Again, a very personal choice.

Well, that brings up another point - there are many variances on both brands, depending on their production dates. Your points are valid, but they are also NOT valid. Depends on the individual car. Some KMPs use the dual battery, and some CSXs use a single. Gauges have also changed a few times on both brands. And as for trans type, Kirkham frames are made for the 4 speed, but they sell an adapter for a 5 speed, whereas you can order a CSX setup for either trans when it's built.

The "current" versions of both cars (as if you were going to buy either brand new), are very much different. The Shelby is still faithful to an original car, with just the brakes and shocks the only major hardware differences. The Kirkham boys are always improving things on their cars, and always making more and more parts to their own spec, and in house. The current KMP is a great machine, with lots of new engineering into it, but at the cost of it becoming farther from an original spec car.

That brings us to the point that 767jockey has brought up.... if you want a car that's faithful to originality, you'll be re-doing a LOT of stuff on a current KMP.

So really, which car is a "better" value, comes down to what the individual buyer is looking for in a car.

[767Jockey]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

The current KMP is a great machine, with lots of new engineering into it, but at the cost of it becoming farther from an original spec car.
That brings us to the point that 767jockey has brought up.... if you want a car that's faithful to originality, you'll be re-doing a LOT of stuff on a current KMP.
So really, which car is a "better" value, comes down to what the individual buyer is looking for in a car.

Exactly what I was TRYING to say, only said much better. Thank you, Sal.

[RodKnock]

Sal is absolutely 100% correct. I should have qualified my statement by saying that I was attempting, poorly I might add, to compare brand new rollers. Bottom line for me, was that I delayed my purchase for a very long time sorting through all the issues mentioned above and many others.

On top of it all, my decision to buy was further complicated with the new versus used question. In that regard, a car like Alan's above already has the infamous CA SB100 exemption, so if Al lives in CA and wants an aluminum CSX car, buying Alan's car would be a smart move.

[Allan A]

Tony,

This is Ricks car. CSX 4309 was purchased in 2003 with CSX 4310 and 4308.

Allan