CSX vs. Kirkham - Page 3

alpace@pacificp · #41 (**permalink**) 10-30-2007, 11:05 PM

Hey guys...did do several searches. What I got was not really 'information'..,oght have been my search criteria? The truth is many of the responses to the search were simply diatribes/defensive responses re 'REAL cobras, REAL Shelbys. Kirkham QUALITY, etc....little in the way of real useful info. That is why I posted in this area....

That said, as a new member, I will handle in any way you think to be the best...

al

alpace@pacificp · #42 (**permalink**) 10-30-2007, 11:06 PM

Power Surge....jsut heard the same thing. Actually, with Chindia buying so much of the world's commodities, including aluminum, I would not be surprised if prices rose even further....

al

alpace@pacificp · #43 (**permalink**) 10-30-2007, 11:08 PM

DOn't know, but I will ask tomorrow.

alpace@pacificp · #44 (**permalink**) 10-30-2007, 11:10 PM

Thanks Ron... I will refine my search....

big-boss · #45 (**permalink**) 10-30-2007, 11:10 PM

If you are still on the fence, think of this:
Kirkhams are now in Shelby regestry.
You can get a Kirkham as original as you want to pay for and last I checked it was less money than a Shelby.
The Shelby guys in LV are great the Kirkham guys are greater.
The Kirkham roller leaves just enough work to get dirty but not board-I have built three other Cobras and owned an Autokraft.
I am not a "name brand guy" so the Shelby was no value to me.
I am an experience driven person-Kirkham with the track days and the Family offer the experience I wanted.
The investment is made in the buy or assembly like most other investments. I have seen shelbys sell for in the mid 100's and Kirkhams sell for 90's they both got their money back which is good for a hobby.
Good luck, enjoy the hunt- it really is half the fun.

alpace@pacificp · #46 (**permalink**) 10-30-2007, 11:12 PM

Lineslinger.,

aptly done. Much appreciate the clarity....

al

alpace@pacificp · #47 (**permalink**) 10-30-2007, 11:15 PM

Rod,

The items you mention as comparative differences are significant. However, the more I begin to realize that most of the 'shelbys' on the road simply flatter, but cannot replace the original, I begin to wonder if chasing a 'tue to form' replica is an oxymoron??

alpace@pacificp · #48 (**permalink**) 10-30-2007, 11:31 PM

All,

Your input is terrific. Underscoring differences and commonalities between Kirkhams and Shelby CSX (as well as some others) is genuinely helpful...if a bit mind-numbing. That said, I am beginning to believe the following: Shelby is building a car that emulates the original...and the debate goes on as to how 'period correct' and successful that emulation is. As to the Kirkham, I am beginning to believe they are simply attempting to take a good, 1960's concept...sensuous lines, ton of HP, etc....and make it better. They do not appear to be hung up on whether they are delivering a 'period correct car'; rather, they appear to be working diligently on using the best attributes of the original....and making the underlying components 'better'.

I love Shelby...but I wonder if attempting to replicate one that is 'true to form' is a fantasy. Heck, there appears to be little consistency in the originals!

As I sit, the decision is not final. That said, it is clear that while a Kirkham is not a period correct shelby, it is arguably the 'better' car? History aside, I have to wonder why I would get hung up on the SHelby pedigree. This is not an investment...it is a sensuous ride. I have better things to invest in than hoping for a 'shelby' to be recognized as such. I will be long gone....and I will not care when that decision is rendered.....

lineslinger · #49 (**permalink**) 10-30-2007, 11:33 PM

Is anyone else on the road going to know who built your car?
Will they care? Will you?
Or, do you care about who is looking in your engine compartment at a car show?
That difference will only cost you 60K plus for the exact same performance, but you will have that aluminum stamped CSX tag.
Its only bucks, you married?

Power Surge · #50 (**permalink**) 10-31-2007, 12:29 AM

Al, I had a Kirkham, it was a beautiful car. I now own a Shelby. Do I miss the KMP? Sure. It was a work of art. Would I own one again someday? Sure. It's a nicely built car. Is it what I really wanted? No. That's why I own a Shelby. I even tried to convince myself while I owned the Kirkham that I didn't need or want the Shelby. In the end, I was fooling myself. I sold the Kirkham and bought a Shelby. Am I happy with my decision? Yes. Because I have the car I wanted.

Do I think one is better than the other? Hard to say. Both cars are of equal build quality and construction. Sure, the Kirkhams improve their car as time goes on, but don't think that those changes put the Kirkham on some higher level than the Shelby. The Kirkhams "changes" revolve around them being able to make more parts in house, as opposed to "let's re-engineer the car". With every new part they make in house, they definitely try to improve where improvement allows. They have not changed anything on their car that makes it significantly better than a Shelby.

Don't let anyone fool you. Both cars are quality cars, on the same level. Both cars will perform out of the box, and both cars can be improved even better for a higher level of performance.

You need to look inside and really figure out what you want in a Cobra. And then buy that car.

Stentor · #51 (**permalink**) 10-31-2007, 12:29 AM

One piece of advice...

Stop worrying about what folks on this forum say, and make the decision that is right for you.

You are always going to get differing points of view on this forum on topics like this (it's like a political debate).

As mentioned by many others, you can't go wrong with either car--glass CSX or Kirkham.

It sounds like you've done your due diligence, now you just need to push forward and make a decision.

We look forward to seeing pictures of your car (either way you go, I am sure it will be a beauty).

Now you need to focus on who is going to do your install/assembly for you.

Good luck.

Dan Stryffeler · #52 (**permalink**) 10-31-2007, 06:11 AM

Buy the Kirkham for the improvements to the icon, and take the money you have left over a buy a Shelby-ized GT-H Mustang.

That way you have the pedigree of the Shelby name, and a choice of car to drive depending on the weather and/or your spouses mood, (I.e. - whether she wants to get her hair destroyed)

Dan

Lew Ledyard · #53 (**permalink**) 10-31-2007, 08:05 AM

Are you going to drive it regularly? The improvements that the Kirkhams have made are generally evolutionary rather than revolutionary. Most have been aimed at improving quality, consistancy and durability. I drive my Kirkham to work on most days (when it doesn't look like rain) and it is reliable and easy to drive. The choice between taking my Kirkham or another car is really just based on whether it is supposed to rain or not. I may be wrong, but it seems that many Kirkham drivers regulalrly use their cars as "cars".

Stentor · #54 (**permalink**) 10-31-2007, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Stryffeler

Buy the Kirkham for the improvements to the icon, and take the money you have left over a buy a Shelby-ized GT-H Mustang.

That way you have the pedigree of the Shelby name, and a choice of car to drive depending on the weather and/or your spouses mood, (I.e. - whether she wants to get her hair destroyed)

Dan

Not quite sure the price differential between a Kirkham and fiberglass CSX is that much

joey_hv · #55 (**permalink**) 10-31-2007, 08:20 AM

hi, uh sorry to interrupt (ran out of popcorn) quick question, didn't someone mention on another thread that you could "buy" a csx # from Shelby for 10k? so if the quality of the Kirkham equals Shelby (for the sake of argument i am assuming it does) couldn't you just buy a roller from Km and buy the number from shel???
just thinking aloud, carry on, popcorn is ready.

Dan Stryffeler · #56 (**permalink**) 10-31-2007, 08:45 AM

There are still a couple of 2006 GT-H cars out there on eBay for well under $30,000.

From an investment standpoint - I'm getting killed - paid a lot more for mine

Dan

RodKnock · #57 (**permalink**) 10-31-2007, 09:02 AM

During my search of ClubCobra during the past few months, I remember coming across a great thread where it ewas stated that the Kirkham weighed less than the CSX. I apologize if I'm summarizing the thread incorrectly, but hasn't the subtle "modernization" (e.g., billet suspension) of the Kirkham cars resulted in a lighter Cobra? I remember David Kirkham actually commenting several times in that thread about the weight reduction.

Igofastr · #58 (**permalink**) 10-31-2007, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lew Ledyard

Are you going to drive it regularly? The improvements that the Kirkhams have made are generally evolutionary rather than revolutionary. Most have been aimed at improving quality, consistancy and durability. I drive my Kirkham to work on most days (when it doesn't look like rain) and it is reliable and easy to drive. The choice between taking my Kirkham or another car is really just based on whether it is supposed to rain or not. I may be wrong, but it seems that many Kirkham drivers regulalrly use their cars as "cars".

Drive mine to work all the time. Drove it today.

I would reiterate, you CAN specify the Kirkham to come as original as you could possibly want. Remember, they got into business making parts to repair / rebuild originals, and can pretty much come up with an identical copy if that's what you want. Original suspension, no prob, two batteries behind the passenger seat? been doing it for years (they only canged because most customers preferred it that way).

In the end, only you can decide between a plastic car with an aluminum CSX plate, and an aluminum car. Which seems more original to you?

Excaliber · #59 (**permalink**) 10-31-2007, 09:55 AM

Original suspension on a Kirkham is an additional $15K 'up grade' as I understand it.

Super Genius · #60 (**permalink**) 10-31-2007, 09:59 AM

Hello,

I am an engineer and a business owner. I did a significant amount of research before making my purchases. My wife (she is the only female Kirkham owner that I know about) and I own two of the top configured / optioned Kirkham cars - #491 and #504. Polished bodies, stainless exhaust, polished 427 (482) FE - the awe factory that the car produces in unbelievable. From an engineering standpoint, the cars have been modernized to be better, lighter, and "cooler". The Kirkham cars (properly setup) are pure race cars. No matter what you sit next to the polished Kirkham, the Kirkham gets the attention.

Appreciation? Guys (and gals) that have the coin for a $100k+ second car (6th and 7th for me) are looking to maintain value not make money off of it. I plan on retaining my cars for years to come.

I believe that 200 aluminum bodies were sold to Shelby by Kirkham. So many Shelby cars are Kirkham skins. Sheep in wolf’s clothing???
:-)