rumor control--has SAAC lost its use of Shelby name?

[RACER X #99]

The last time I saw CS at the convention was at LRP a bunch of years ago. He drove to the back of the paddock(where we were parked) which was empty at the time and JM and I heard him arguing with his wife about something. We also heard him crying about all them GD replicas and especially ERA at that time. He was overheard saying I should get into the replica business and fix their asses. Well I'll be damned if he didn't do what he said he was gonna do.

I would not be looking for CS at any SAAC convention in the near future.

[bret a ewing]

Mmmm, just watched "Christmas Vacation".

Tell Cousin Eddie you really want him to show up.

[Mark IV]

Originally Posted by VRM

Anybody else notice the new logo on the SAAC site?

That logo (the "S" snake with the "AAC") is NOT new, it has been used for almost twenty years! I wonder if SAAC has trademarked that logo?

Jamo,

I see your fifty and raise you sixty!

Rick

[Madmiles442]

I wonder where all this will be when the Old Man kicks.
Are his next-of-kin as friggin litigious as he is?

One thing's for sure - this sucks. It's just painful to see such a rift within a hobby that brings SO many people years of joy. And no, it doesn't effect me directly, but just splatters a little mud on the posters on the wall and the autograph on the glove box....


_

[SFM5S159]

I guess a little OT here, but I had three or four Shelby meetings over the years and he was pretty damn cordial. The first was at LRP at the last SAAC meet there. My brothers and I were up way too early and in the paddock and lo and behold up comes a white town car I think, and it's Carroll Shelby driving around early morning. He stopped and we talked for a few minutes and he moved on. It was pretty cool. He signed a hat of mine at the fall Auburn auction a few years ago-no charge. Another time he posed for a few pics in CSX3002 with a friends of mine who brought the car to the SACC meet in Nashville. So first hand, he's always been friendly where I've crossed his path.

My support is with SAAC. I would like them to continue what they have done and maybe with this wake up call improve and update the club, website, services etc. I will say that Pardee and Matthews have always been there with rapid fire answers for me when I have called or written.

I'll be at SAAC-33 with my '65 ready to race. I may be at the tail , but I'll be out there!!!
MC

[DougD]

I guess I've just been lucky as he's been to all the conventions I've attended.

No, I certainly don't expect him to show at any future SAAC events.

I guess for me the decision to attend will lie with the site chosen. I'd prefer an historic track vs a site chosen first for it's hotels and second for the track. I was a little concerned a couple of years ago when SAAC indicated they were trying to pick a single site and hold the convention there year after year. I really like moving it around the country so I can visit different tracks. And the rolling show that is the open track provides the best music one can hear - a GT40 at full song down the main straight at any track......

I'll be watching this SAAC/Shelby feud with interest. Hope the enthusiast doesn't suffer in the end. Seems like the two parties share similar goals and would be better off working together than butting heads for members.

SAAC and the SVTOA will presumably continue to hold events together - maybe the SVTOA will provide the new blood SAAC needs to survive.

[VRM]

Originally Posted by Mark IV

That logo (the "S" snake with the "AAC") is NOT new, it has been used for almost twenty years! I wonder if SAAC has trademarked that logo?

Rick

Ok, my mistake. I don't think I have ever seen it before, and certainly not on the website.

I'm wondering if the 'laid back' approach to web updates/newsletters and such were one of the bones of contention between Shelby and SAAC. Until recently the SAAC website was very boring, and (with the exception of SAAC-XX info) rarely updated.
I do hope that SAAC has that logo trademarked.

Steve

[JBo]

saac web site boring???? it is not that good...useless would be better

[shelby racer]

If this does not belong in this thread I appologize...
I just got my welcome package from Team Shelby. It included a crappy little Ford key chain instead of the "Shelby" one that was promised. I wrote Robert about the error and his reply was that they never had them and were sending out what they did have since it clearly states that they can change any thing they want at any time. They would later make Team Shelby key chains and members would be allowed to buy them at a discount. Truly magnanimous ! Please do not think I am being Petty, because this is NOT about the key chain. It is about the attitude that they don't care and do not feel that they need to take responsability for what what they say or promise. Not a good way to try and start something new and attract members when there is already controversy. It also surprises me that they do not understand the membership that they are trying to attract. When I was chairman of Nor Cal SAAC's Mini National Convention a couple of years ago, it was made very clear to me that we were a Shelby Club, not a Ford club when it came to merchadising event swag. I can also tell you that Nor Cal SAAC was kind of nervous when this controversy started a month ago and has been becoming more so with each passing event. I can also tell that those who express an interest in what is going on, are not happy with what is perceived to be happening to SAAC. Does Team Shelby care? Probably not, but they should because it is the people who make up the clubs and buy the products. I know that right now, I am not planning on renewing my Team Shelby membership and IMHO would not reccomend joining to any one else.

To put things in perspective, this incident may also have just hit a sore nerve because my dealer pulled the same kind of crap when I was buying my cobra and no one at SAI cared (well, Gary P cared, but his hands were tied) - besides my less than optimal experience with an incorrectly built cobra that I am still trying to make right.

John(;-)

[Excaliber]

You know, when you consider the BIG picture (USA) were a pretty small group of enthusiasts. Team Shelby, in conjunction with FORD, is looking for a much bigger slice of the entire USA population to sell product to, in that regard, the voices here are miniscule. I'm sure they've 'worked the numbers' and pissing off a few enthusiasts is OK when you stand to gain so many more 'newbies' along the way. It was mentioned on another site that the 'package' you recieve when joining Team Shelby is not yet complete, guess that means Ford logos instead of Shelby logos for now, whatever...

I suspect Team Shelby will thrive, prosper and grow MUCH bigger than SAAC could have ever hoped for, I think it's gonna be HUGE, thats reality as I see it. SAAC will diminish along the way and with time. And there aint nothing we can do about it in the long run.

What made this a 'water shed' event for me personally, and has soured me BIG TIME on Shelby, was the way they treated SAAC along the way. There was no call for that, even Amy B. was unaware of the dastardly deeds taking place behind her back. For the time being I'm referring to MY ERA as an AC replica, at least for now I really want to remove myself from being associated with Shelby.

[shelby racer]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

You know, when you consider the BIG picture (USA) were a pretty small group of enthusiasts. Team Shelby, in conjunction with FORD, is looking for a much bigger slice of the entire USA population to sell product to, in that regard, the voices here are miniscule. I'm sure they've 'worked the numbers' and pissing off a few enthusiasts is OK when you stand to gain so many more 'newbies' along the way. It was mentioned on another site that the 'package' you recieve when joining Team Shelby is not yet complete, guess that means Ford logos instead of Shelby logos for now, whatever...

I suspect Team Shelby will thrive, prosper and grow MUCH bigger than SAAC could have ever hoped for, I think it's gonna be HUGE, thats reality as I see it. SAAC will diminish along the way and with time. And there aint nothing we can do about it in the long run.

What made this a 'water shed' event for me personally, and has soured me BIG TIME on Shelby, was the way they treated SAAC along the way. There was no call for that, even Amy B. was unaware of the dastardly deeds taking place behind her back. For the time being I'm referring to MY ERA as an AC replica, at least for now I really want to remove myself from being associated with Shelby.

You are right. It is the same reason enthusiasts don't get to participate in focus groups - even if it is a performance model (or at least so said some one from Ford). Life will go on as it always has for the vast majority of us. It is just sad (IMO) that apparently the people who are making the decisions and who ultimately interact with us the most really don't care about us. More qudos to Amy for being willing to talk to us since she ends up taking the heat for things for which she is not responsible.

As far as my Team Shelby package being incomplete and to be corrected late (which would have been absolutely fine with me), no it is complete as far as they are concerned. If you want what you were promised, or anything else for that matter - that will cost extra. Funny, I seem to remember some statement from Team Shelby that it was form to better serve the enthusiasts needs.

IMHO it is not if mistakes are made occasionally, it is all in how they are handled. It is not about swag, it is about attitude.

[John McMahon]

Ernie,

I have been soured on Carroll Shelby ever since SAAC 25 when I saw him pull up to all the Cobra replicas in a golf cart and tell his cronies to start snapping pictures of all his Cobra badges on the ERAs at the event. It was to be used in preparation for his suit against ERA.

I lost all respect for the man, here folks are paying $25 each to get into the event that was celebrating his successes, waiting in line to pay for the privilege of owning his signature and what is he doing? Using those very same fans as fodder for one of his lawsuits.

My bubble was burst then and it has only gotten worse.

I still enjoy the conventions, but only for the cars.

[CSX 4027]

[quote=John McMahon]Ernie,

My bubble was burst then and it has only gotten worse.

That's your whole problem...
Still play'n with bubbles

[fsstnotch]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

You know, when you consider the BIG picture (USA) were a pretty small group of enthusiasts. Team Shelby, in conjunction with FORD, is looking for a much bigger slice of the entire USA population to sell product to, in that regard, the voices here are miniscule. I'm sure they've 'worked the numbers' and pissing off a few enthusiasts is OK when you stand to gain so many more 'newbies' along the way. It was mentioned on another site that the 'package' you recieve when joining Team Shelby is not yet complete, guess that means Ford logos instead of Shelby logos for now, whatever...

I suspect Team Shelby will thrive, prosper and grow MUCH bigger than SAAC could have ever hoped for, I think it's gonna be HUGE, thats reality as I see it. SAAC will diminish along the way and with time. And there aint nothing we can do about it in the long run.

What made this a 'water shed' event for me personally, and has soured me BIG TIME on Shelby, was the way they treated SAAC along the way. There was no call for that, even Amy B. was unaware of the dastardly deeds taking place behind her back. For the time being I'm referring to MY ERA as an AC replica, at least for now I really want to remove myself from being associated with Shelby.

You are exactly right Ernie! And that is because the club is geared toward the mustang crowd... in particular, the newer mustangs. If you want the proof... just look a the mag! Of the 164 pages, I think I counted 56 pages that did not have a NEW style shelby on them. That's less than 1/3!

[csx700?]

shelby racer
did you happen to buy your cobra from "newport"?

[griffin289trips]

Iv'e been reading the many different opinions and possibilities of the future of SAAC anf the new Shelby Club. I guess like everything in life change is inevitable. I dropped out of SAAC in the mid 90's as I felt the the club was more interested in maximizing profit instead of a balanced club that satisfys the majority of members whishes. I realize that it is impossible to keep all members in a state of eternal hapiness but compared to the early years the clubs fun factor , not to mention the atitudes of the heirarchy was in a state of arogance that had no time for the commoner. Yes the club provided some incredible conventions but compared to my first few conventions, Hershy 77, Downingtown 79, Dearborne 80 up until the late eighties or early 90's the true essence and closeness every one felt started to slowly diminish.
The first time I ever saw Carroll Shelby was at the 83 Dearborne convention, after getting his autograph on my owners manual, at no charge, I was on a natural high for a week. At this point car and parts prices were affordable to most people with a sincere desire to own a Shelby.
After the SAAC started reducing the number of SHELBY AMERICANS and suplementing the snakebite newsletters, which used to be included in the Bi-monthly Shelby Americans, many members were starting to feel that the club management were more interested in the bottom line instead of running a club that had a place for the majority of members. Any critisism of the new changes were either ignored or told that they were not being forced to stay with the club. Anyway it seemed that things got worse as time went on.
In defense of the SAAC management I guess it's easy to point your finger and complain about the direction and attitude they seemed to have evolved into. In reality there are only a few clubs that offer open tracks, regional clubs tied in to a major national club and all the perks that most club members took for granted not realizing that most car clubs don't even come close to the SAAC.
Most long term members saw the club as if it was in a decline. Me included. Since this new development with Shelby's new club I starting to see SAAC in a new light. Of course there were issues as not everyone was happy with but in the long run SAAC added a real genuine spice to a lot of peoples lives that the Shelby Club provided for a very nominal fee, all things consisdered. Not to mention the increase in values of Shelbys. I attended the 06 VIR convention and had the time of my life.
Well I don't know where all this is headed but I feel that SAAC should maintaine control of the original Shelbys as they have the most experience and know the ins and outs better than most. The new Shelby club would be more intune to the new Shelby Mustangs.
I can't imagine a Shelby National Convention with new and old Shelbys and the crowds. Next years convention should be facinating to see. Will there be new and old all mixed together, can it even be organized in a way that will satisfy most members.
I normally don't add much to the forum but couldn't help it after going through the thousands of pictures of all the various regional and national Shelby shows. SAAC has truly added a real natural high that would never had been experienced without Carroll Shelby and SAAC. Overall taking the good with the bad the priceless memories and the new friends made with the same passion, complaining about some imperfections seems so trivial.
The bottom line is if Carroll Shelby didn't make the Cobra and Shelby Mustang in the sixties our lives would have had a much more mundane existance. He started it all and I hope all parties will overcome their petty problems and move on to a cordial existance that benifits all parties.
Thanks Carroll, Bob

[RodKnock]

JBo, good stuff, I had a good laugh at your line.

I don't understand what "pie" SAAC and Team Shelby are splitting up. I assume SAAC made a little money with the registry, events and the $40 annual fee because they cared, but Team Shelby at $49.95? We're not talking about minting Google or Baidu millionaires and billionaires. It's really nice to protect your brand and everything, but gee whiz, Shelby is going after small potatoes. We're not talking Apple Computer versus the old Beatles label Apple.

[David Kirkham]

shelby racer,

I would add "mountain climbing" to your signature line.

David

[C5HM]

I've been reading this thread with interest after seeing a link to it from the Boss 302 Forum. And what I've been reading about old man Shelby's latest money grab is more than a little distressing for a life long Ford fan like myself. It is just about the last straw for this Ford guy. I've been into Ford high performance just about all of my life. And that's a long time. My first new car was the first 302 powered Maverick available in Central Florida that I bought from Johnny Bolton Ford (nominal sponsor of Walt Hane's '66 B/P winning R Model BTW) in 1971 (---because as an 18 year old slaving at $1.35 an hour at McDonalds, I couldn't afford a new Boss). As things turned out, Ford walked away almost completely from all things high performance the very next year. Old man Shelby was off in Africa. Those were dark days for anyone interested in Blue Oval performance and junk yard shopping was required if you wanted to go fast. Even the Ford based NASCAR teams had to frequent scrap yards--or go to Australia--for replacement parts, Ford and Shelby were out of the performance busines and couldn't have cared less about Fomoco high performance enthusiasts. National newsstand magazine offered endless articles about small block Chevrolet engines and just about nothing about Ford performance or history. Slowly "mom and pop" operations started to surface that serviced Ford enthusiasts' needs and folks like Rick Kopec, Austin Craig and Jimmy Wicks began to organize clubs to help preserve Ford racing history. As a yountg enthusiast I hung around folks with REAL Cobras (that actually got driven both on the street and the SCCA Florida State championships), first generation Shelby Mustangs and Boss cars of all stripes. I joined SAAC back in the day not because I owned a Cobra ( couldn't fit, actually) but just because of what the club was doing with Ford high performance (when absolutely NO ONE ELSE cared a whit. I've been a member since just after the club got started. Over the years, I've owned Boss 302s, a Talladega, CJ Mustangs, block long '72 LTDs, Cougars, Marauders, Broncos, F-150s and Explorers and a number of old Ford powered Grand National cars. I even built a Pinto powered Sunbeam Alpine Mk IV and suprised more than a few sporty cars owners with it at the auto cross. I've done just about eveything that can be done in the Ford performance world that I could as an enthusiast. I was very happy when Ford decided to get "re-interested" in high performance in the eighties. I've remained a FORD guy all theses years.
But perhaps no longer.
I've been becoming increasingly incensed at Ford's recent attempt to try to shake down the vendors who supply the hobby. While Ford couldn't be botherd to manufacture even an emblem or two for restorers in the late 70s, 80s and 90s, the corporation now thinks it is fine and dandy to threaten mom and pop types with major litigation if they don't pay up---sometimes for things that aren't even copy-right protected. Don Corleone would be proud. Shelby also turned his back on Ford folks in favor a front wheel drive econo-boxes. Sure, he showed up at the annual SAAC conventions to be adored (not bad work if you can get it). But besides that, he did zip, zero and nada for Ford enthusiasts. And don't even get me started about the "left over" Cobra frames that Shelby "found" in a California warehouse. In certain circles that kind of discovery can be called FRAUD. It was nothing less than naked greed and an attempt to put one over on the credulous. And then there is the recent fleecing of the folks who paid really stupid money for a certain run of puerile movie car replica Mustangs (I just can't bring myself to call them "Shelbys")---all with good ole' CS's blessing. After all, his only concern is for the SHELBY enthusiasts---right??? Isn't that the buncum that certain self interested types have been trying to sell here? No sale.
And now that avaricious old (well---you fill in the blank) Shelby has the stones to cut ties with the club that has MADE him what he is today (an icon as opposed to a broken down old has-been racer and corporate front man from the 50s and 60s). And I mean what I say. Shelby American with Shelby (as a front man for Shelby American ) accomplished a lot. But Shelby didn't do it (or even most of "it")alone. Shelby didn't turn the wrenches or design the cars. Look to folks like Ken Miles and Pete Brock (designer of the Daytona Coupe whom CS recently tried to prevent from reprising-----all in the name of the enthisiasts---right??). Frankly, without the constant laving applied by Kopec and crew these past 30+ years, who the hell would remember the old man? Stop and think about it---did Ralph Moody (a far greater influence on Ford racing than Shelby on balance) ever have a fan club? Hell no! Ralph died in relative anonimity several years back. Jack Roush has won far more races and titles than Shelby for Ford, too. But it's doubtful that 30 years hence we will be going to RAAC conventions, isn't it? So , now in the twilight of his years, Shelby has surrounded himself with toadies and Johnny come lately types and decided to shake down the clueless folks who are willing to pay thousands over sticker for the tarted up secretary's cars that the new mass produced Mustangs have become. And in that effort, his parasites have told him that he ought to cut out the fellows who MADE his legend (in the same way that Jackie "O" nurtured JFK's after his death). I've even heard that the old man has told Jimmy Wicks and other long time Shelby show promoters that the precious "Shelby" name can't be used to promote their shows any longer (I assume without ponying up some money for the privilege) To be fair, that may just be a rumor. But the deal with SAAC is all too real. Shelby seems (through his actions and the words of his mouth pieces) to be oblivious to the tremendous back-lash that his ill considered actions are going to cause. Sure, maybe the younger folks who recognize his name (THANKS TO SAAC in large measure) may still want to buy new "Shelby" MASS PRODUCED Mustangs (then again, maybe not---they are going wanting or for MSRP here in SE TX). But those folks maybe but one car purchase away from the next flavor of the month trendy car.
To all of this, I say to Hell with Shelby and to Hell with the Ford Motor Company.
The new cars I will be buying down the road won't be Ford brands. And they sure as HELL won't be "Shelbys" (even when the thousands upon thousands built of those new "limited production cars" start showing up in the auto trader). And I won't be putting one more penny in Ford or Shelby's pocket. But I will continue to pay my SAAC dues. When Shelby inevitably takes the dirt nap (he's no spring chicken), one has to wonder what the parasites he's surrounding himself with now will be doing? I DOUBT that it will be promoting Shelby events or preserving Ford performance history. Nope, not likely. They'll hop on to the next passing host and leave you true blue Ford guys in the dust. (I'll be driving my Z06 by then). Who knows, maybe Hot Wheels will still be hiring (say, come to think of it, isn't a GT500E really just a Hot Wheel writ large?). It will be up to Kopec, Wicks and Tony Branda and the like to keep the flame burning then---perhaps after FOMOCO has been bought by Toyota.

[shelby racer]

Originally Posted by csx700?

shelby racer
did you happen to buy your cobra from "newport"?

I got my cobra from XKs unlimited in San Luis Obispo who never could tell me anything during the two years it took to build me car (luckily Gary P could), charged me more for shipping / delivery than was originally calculated, did not inspect the car before delivery (as shown by the disconnected fuel fill hose that I found the first day I had the car plus other things like telling me about parts that had been known to fail in the front suspension and had been upgraded in later cars but did tell me that mine had them which was discovered and replaced when I took the car back to Vegas for the frame work / rebuild) and did not include or install parts that were originally promised (with NO disclaimers regarding "specifications may change" until after the car was delivered). I have heard worse stories but those are mainly from people who had their dealer finish / build their car for them. They were the largest volume dealer for Shelby when I got my car. Needless to say they do NOT get my reccomendation.