rumor control--has SAAC lost its use of Shelby name?

[lineslinger]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Amy: Good luck with the new venture. I think its a good idea. Also I would pay no attention to "some" here as they are not worth paying attention too and have done nothing but to continually degrade the Continuation cars and at times SAI and in many cases motivated by sour grapes and other juvinille motives.

Any assistance I can offer feel free to PM me.

Jim: I disagree to an extent about SAAC "keeping the flame alive". I think the car had its fan base with or without SAAC and will continue to have its fan base with or without SAAC. The fan base of the Cobra allowed and has allowed SAAC to continue not visa versa. Thats how I see it.

And now sit back, and enjoy the next half hour of "As Evan's World Turns"
You sir, are detached.

[RedCSX1]

Originally Posted by What'saCobra?

This is no call for the SAAC Registry to include F5's or ERA's. But, if the intent is to convert sales of replicas to "real" of various types (Ford "Stangs, Shelby 500's, Shelby engines, etc), SOMEONE ought to provide some inclusionality to those replica owners that are obviously very potential buyers of newer machines. How many do you know own one or more of each at some time or other, and switch between them as the various markets rise and fall, along with personal interests and fortunes?

Sure, some of the replica provider/builders have their own clubs, events and even regulated competitions. Nice, that. Others have nothing and most have little national eventing. SAAC wasn't interested for the various obvious reasons. But, Shelby/FORD have very good reason to get connected to these people. It is mis-direction to focus only on the post purchase people, but additionally forget to encourage the current Cob owners to get "coordinated" street wheels.

Maybe this is too obvious to everyone and assumed. But, i think if Shel' wants to connect with his own heritage, there are many many more than 1000 "original" believers that love the cars and romance the story.

Would the clubs rather they move "up" to new Corvette's, Magnums and Mazdas?

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT

SAAC, Has always been about real Shelby's, and that is the way it should be. Many in this Forum are bent out of shape because they do not feel included.

Again a club like SAAC has always been clear on its focus however its allowed the replica's to participate in some events like open track and car shows. If I was running the Club that SHELBY is promoting I would handle it the same way SAAC has as far as inclusion goes.

[rms427]

I have been a member of a Cobra Club since 1968. First it was Cobra Owners Club of America. This was mainly a local Southern California Club. The members held events and drove their cars much like the Club Cobra members do now. This was an all volunteer organization. I remember cranking out the newsletters on a mimeograph machine. Many like myself used their cars as daily drivers. I left California in 1972 and I think the club disbanded about that time. Shelby Owners Association started up around that time and it morphed into SAAC. Now remember that there are a lot more than 1000 cars since SAAC always included all 1962-1970 Shelby cars. This includes Cobras, Shelby Mustangs, GT 40s and Tigers plus a few other cars that Shelby had some involvement with. Total cars produced was around 15,000. I just added up the numbers in the SAAC Registry.

SAAC certainly helped keep the interest up when many thought these were just old cars. This helped keep a lot of cars from the crusher. Shelby did little for the original owners after he stopped building the cars. Why should he? He was busy with other projects. I can remember when a Cobra owner back in the early 70' couldn't get a windshield for over a year. The replicas have been a blessing since they have made it possible to get relatively inexpensive parts. This allows guys like me to still drive the cars since I know if I break something I can find a part to fix it.

I certainly do not look down at replica owners. In fact I find it great that they use their cars like we did back in the early years before the cars became so valuable. I also know that some of the replicas are better built than the originals.

SAAC is still worthwhile for the owners of original cars and those that like to see the original cars. As far as I know replicas are welcome at SAAC events especially local SAAC club events. I took my car to Laguna Seca when Shelby was the honored mark and out of the 200 plus cobras in the cobra parking area there were only a handful of original cars.

It sounds like the new Team Shelby will be mainly for current Shelby products. SAAC is mainly for original Shelby cars and anyone interested in original cars (this includes most replica owners), Club Cobra is for all Cobras and GT 40s. Each has a place in the world. I would guess that most of the members of local SAAC clubs don't have original cars.

Since it doesn't sound like Team Shelby is planning local clubs I think SAAC is still relevant to many folks including replica owners. It certainly is important to the owners of original cars. Remember there are probably close the the same number of original cars now that there were back in the 1980s.

I plan on remaining a SAAC member if for no other reason than they keep up the documentation of original cars. I am also a member of the local SAAC club but haven't attended many events. Most of the events I have attended in the last few years have been with Club Cobra folks. As I stated earlier I find the Club Cobra events to be more like the ones we had back in the original cobra club. I enjoy the low key environment.

Have fun, Ray

[andy0935]

I am sure there are individuals within SAAC who may be elitist but I can assure you that is not the official club position. I do not profess to be a personal friend of Rick Kopec but I met him accidentally on a trip a couple of years ago and had nothing but good things to say about all entbusiasts whether or not they owned any kind of Shelby related car. In fact their slogan is "ownership not essential, enthusiasm is. The Norcal chapter has a corral at the monterey historics annual and at least half the corral is made up of replicas.

[REAL 1]

After reading Jim's post I agree with Jim. I do think there has been a symbiotic relationship between SAAC and Cobra fans/fanatics.

I, however, do think Shelby was not right in taking away SAACs licensing rights. They could have continued to allow that and run their own site at the same time. There is just something not right with taking away an organizations licensing that has done so much for the Cobra over the years. To me it doesn't seem like very good public relations.

[Madmiles442]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

You can't expect SAAC to embrace all replicas, because the club's purpose is for the support and history of Shelby cars.

HOWEVER, a club started by Shelby, COULD embrace all brands of replicas. As the creator of the Cobra, Shelby could start a "COBRA" club, who's intent is to get ALL Cobra owners together as one. A national Cobra club would be a hit. I also feel that a national Cobra club, as started by Shelby, would help to relieve a lot of the tension between "brand ownership"....

I went back several pages to get this one, because I think it's the best idea to come out of this whole thread. A national Shelby Cobra Club that allows originals, replicas, tributes, all of it.

PS - I didn't get the popcorn out before, when it was Ron R, Bill S, Bill S's ego (they really deserve 2 different User Names) or Amy, but Evan's asinine remarks (no sour grapes or juvinille [I think he meant juvenile] here bud) have got me going for the Orville Redenbacher.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

After reading Jim's post I agree with Jim. I do think there has been a symbiotic relationship between SAAC and Cobra fans/fanatics.

I, however, do think Shelby was not right in taking away SAACs licensing rights. They could have continued to allow that and run their own site at the same time. There is just something not right with taking away an organizations licensing that has done so much for the Cobra over the years. To me it doesn't seem like very good public relations.

I'll agree with Evan on this point.

(Hmm, last time I tried to agree with Evan, he argued with me about it... )

[Jim Maxwell]

That's a sign of a man who can see both sides of an argument!

[imagine2frolic]

Way back on about page 14 someone said 22 pages when I asked how far this can go. I am getting another bucket of popcorn, and something to wash it down. Lots of good thoughts being tossed around, and as always a few bad ones too.

Madmiles442, would like a drink for your popcorn too??????

[relaxinrob]

I think that SAAC should continue to be the support structure for those lucky enough to have an original. The new TeamShelby group, if they chose to do so, could bring replica OWNERS into the organization, while not bringing in the replica MANUFACTURERS. That way, TeamShelby promotes those who love the cars, but doesn't give the nod to those who manufacture them........

I think there could be a line drawn in the sand that everyone would be comfortable with.

[CBattaglia]

If this post is longer than the "hot Chick next to my cobra" thread, we have a problem

[Madmiles442]

Originally Posted by imagine2frolic

Way back on about page 14 someone said 22 pages when I asked how far this can go. I am getting another bucket of popcorn, and something to wash it down. Lots of good thoughts being tossed around, and as always a few bad ones too.
Madmiles442, would like a drink for your popcorn too??????

Yes sir, Knob Creek with a splash sounds good.

You know, all Ron and Jamo need to do is to get a paid subscription to this little Club and we've got the national Cobra Club thing already. I'm grossly oversimplifying this, of course, but hmmmmm.

[What'saCobra?]

RedCSX1: "What are you talking about? ... If I was running the Club that SHELBY is promoting I would handle it the same way SAAC has as far as inclusion goes."

OK by me, if you are in charge, you might then also create the current lackluster performance. That would allow more of the same ignorance of the total market value of Shel's franchise. i won't be a member of your "club" then, either. Not interesting.

Let's see, the current market value (or capitalization) of all "original" Cobras exceeds a billion dollars. Just how big is the "Cobra" market. Would you believe as much as 10 billion dollars over the next 6 or 7 years?

Understand the upside potentials to Shel' now?

Time and circumstances change. Frankly, Shel' & FORD should pay whatever d'argent to get SAAC in the boat. FORD wants to sell perhaps 30,000 cars a year for a few years, say 4 or 7. Maybe 50,000 per annum.

Are you kidding? Not making the Cobra club inclusive under those circumstances??? Costs nothing, pays for itself. Keep pride and miss an involved Shel' at a high level? Does anyone in the room know the revenue flow from 50,000 units? Or 150,000? At $50K+ each?

Club gross revenues might easily be way way over $1mil+ and each "real" owner gets a handshake and a back-slap with a "my kind of guy!"??? Worth much more than a signature to most of us. He is a breathing legend.

What's real? It either is or looks like a Cobra. It either is or looks like a Shelby Mustang. Maybe more. We all know about the importance of the continuations, real race cars, original race cars, clones, etc. No problem. You check your wallet and you take your choice and aspire for better next time.

Perhaps Shel' hasn't patted you on the back yet (or maybe you're his best friend), but he is a very charming sucker and even this old curmudgeon was smited (smitten?) with that big smile. After all those years. And I have modest issues from way back, long gone and corrected properly with some "assisance" from friends at the time.

Amy knows of which i speak regarding his charm and it is true. Of course, he can cut to the quick also, but he wouldn't dream of doing that to a potential GT500 buyer, never has and never will. (But, he might err and forget a little. Me too.) He is a great story and a great man.

But, given the market potentials, why should SAAC "keep" stuff away from Shel'? He should simply purchase it "back", whatever and get on with the show. Everyone get off their horse and parlay. It makes sense.

The SAAC owners are tired, IMHO, of the grief and intensity. They can't get it up enough to produce a magazine meeting their own standards. Give them a break. They earned it six ways from Sunday. Others can pick up the mantle and correct the club limitations dictated by both the original "elitism" and the practicalities of establishing the lineage of all the "fine" cars. Including Mustang thingies. But, The SAAC owners must be paid. And respected. By the way, they do not know me and i do not know them, though we met perhaps six years ago for a hello. i have no interest in their business. Never did, don't now and will not in the future.

Look at how long Corvettes have been manufactured and sold. And raced. It is no error that there are many many very excellent Corvette clubs, mags, shirts, events, etc. GM supports the car and dealers.

Just exactly why do you think that you couldn't even give 427 Cobras away in 1967? IMHO, there was a complete failure to comprehend and respect marketing methods and forces in the day and a complete unwillingness by Shel' and FORD to spend the money necessary to keep the car both in production and in the public eye. The result: predicted failure.

Subsequently, SAAC did that work and it yet is still evolving at both FORD, SAAC, Shelby entities/licensees and the various competitors. Ned's great work should be re-paid in full and he ought to be allowed to elect any involvement he might desire regarding authentication services, etc. The man is a walking Winchester.

Just my opinion, but, to stay as is will create a limitation on the Shel' group that might not stand or be tolerated for long. They have a serious imperative to get their arms around this. It is only money and parlay. And promises. In writing. And contracts with witnesses. And cubic miles of PR. Can be done. Must be done, eventually, IMHO.

Of course it is controversial. And inflamable. And potentially ugly, with tempers, pride, and illicit (and uninformed) 3rd parties with ego-inflated opinions. Say as you might, the fact is that this situation will be resolved either the easy or the hard way, but it will be resolved.

Recall that i watched the 289 racers and buyers get dumped as soon as the marvelous 427 became available and FORD stopped funding races and development of the 289. And then i watched up close and personal while 427 racers and owners got ignored when the GT40 became the flavor of the year. And i watched kit suppliers get bad-mouthed with serious gusto and disrespect, rather than get them under the tent. So, i know the new club will only last as long as it is funded and supported, not a minute longer. Shel' will not supply the funds to keep it going when things are a little slow.

Shel' was bored to death, annoyed by regulations big time, chased by creditor issues resulting from poor financial performance of auto sales, abandonned by FORD, disgusted with Mustangs, and particularly pissed about the whole mess. With that kind of attitude, it is little wonder he wasn't very bright and shinny about the later knock-offs of "his" car design. He quit and abandonned the project, took his marbles and went to Africa. Frankly, i blame FORD's H2, not Shel'. Shel' got no real support after Le Mans and way too many orders.

He is a great man, but not as perfect as us.

Remember the Torino "Cobra". On the other hand, they ought to be members, if they wish.

Shel' perhaps gets bored with smoothness. OK by me. He knows how to spend, too. But, to allow SAAC to withhold original SA documents just isn't going to be taken lightly. Unless SAAC steps up to the plate and find an imaginative solution to accept, misery will follow everyone. The courts are always a loser to everyone, except the lawyers. The court is an assymptote.

In the end, a compromise/purchase will happen. Saner heads will prevail.

Not entirely unlike Rupert's purchase of Dow Jones/WSJ.

And the upcoming sale of the NYTimes to...

[TerrysSPF]

Whatsa- WOW, that was a mouthfull!

I just spent a couple hours reading all of this from the 1st page on. First of all, while I don't always agree with Amy (or what's going on at Shelby) I have to give her credit for being here. Takes a lot of guts to get on here with this bunch.

I was a member of SAAC when I owned my GT-350 in the 80's. I thought they did a pretty good job over there with (what I figured) was a limited budget. I cancelled my membership when I sold my car. When I purchased my SPF in the early 2000's I re-joined SAAC and wasn't as impressed with the club as I was in the 80's. But then again........I was now a "replica" owner.
I DO understand however (unlike Evan) what SAAC has meant to Shelby as far as keeping the name alive (not visa versa). But, I have to agree with Evan (and others) that Shelby should NOT be taking away SAAC's right to use his name, or maintain original papers. It's what they do and frankly, I don't think Shelby could handle it as well (into too many other ventures).

This is just my opinion, but to me, it looks like Shelby is starting this new Club to "legitimize" the new "Shelby's" coming out of Ford today. That's why it's geared towards the newer vehicles (or at least that's what it sounds like). Legitimizing the new vehicles may in turn make them more collectable as well as increase their value (which I'm sure Shelby is hoping will also increase the value of his name). Shelby already has name value with many of US, but a lot of the owners of the newer vehicles ('Stangs) are much younger than we are. Are the new Mustangs being registered? Perhaps Shelby wants them to be and wants to be in control over SAAC?

I think it would be a shame if Shelby didn't use this new Club as an opportunity to unite ALL Cobra owners - original AND replica. After all, they have a replica company building some of their glass cars today, and they had a replica company building their alum cars in previous years, so why can't we just all get along?
Fire the lawyers and use your head CS. -The replica companies are one of the biggest reasons why your name (and your car) are still popular today.

[Don]

Agree with TerrysSPF's comment:

" The replica companies are one of the biggest reasons why your name (and your car) are still popular today. "

I noticed the use of " one of the biggest reasons ", not the only reason. The average individual and even some auto hobbyists cannot by themselves determine if the Cobra is an original or a replica. Publicity and press coverage on the auction results for a Cobra as well as other media exposure, as an example, the Bill Cosby interview and Bill's narration of the Cobra given to him by Caroll Shelby as viewed on the Jay Leno show have also contributed to the popularity of the Cobra, i.e. many, many reasons for name and visual identification.

Being a Corvette owner, the Vette just does not have the WOW factor for the general public as compared to the Cobra, and never will.

In my case, the association with the desire to have a Cobra ( replica, cannot afford an original ), came from attending races at the now closed Bridgehampton , Long island NY track and Watkins Glen . Reinforcement came from attending the AACA Fall National Meet in Hershey PA for many years and seeing a Cobra. AACA only allows original vehicles that are 25 years or older. Their Club rules do not allow for modified vehicles or replicas as their charter purpose was specifically for the Antique Auto enthusiasts .

I " think " , subject to correction by others that have attended, but either or both the SAAC and/or Shelby events and Car Shows at Lime Rock Park in CT are for originals only, no replicas of any type.

From David S.Wallen's Turn One Article in the December edition of Grassroots Motorsports:

" In reality, we should think of ourselves as ambassadors. To the rest of the world, we;re just a bunch of geeks playing with cars; and to someone new to motorsports, we might be the deciding factor as to whether they stick with it or move to a different hobby-like softball or fishing or something that doesn't involve four-wheeled things that go vroom vroom while devouring copious amounts of time and cash "

Thought the last few words would provide a lite moment for a Thread that has 235 replies and 10,981 views over the last 5 days

[kayakjack]

Originally Posted by Don

Agree with TerrysSPF's comment:


Being a Corvette owner, the Vette just does not have the WOW factor for the general public as compared to the Cobra, and never will.

When I was at the Petit LeMans last month the Corvette Corral was absolutely loaded with CARS and PEOPLE. The two Vettes on track made the best sound of all. Good show!!

Since Shelby has kissed and made up with Ford - can you imagine Ford contracting with someone like Pratt & Miller to produce and run a Cobraesque Ford powered car against them!!! As much as I wish it looked like my 427 Cobra, it might make business sense to make it more Mustang like. Shelby's name on the side. Call them Cobras. Kick some Vette butt. The hills full of all kinds of Cobras cheering them on. Mustangs, 427s. Ford selling a boatload of cars. Shelby raking in good royalty $$ on the cars sold by Ford. Everybody happy.

I can dream can't I??

Jack

[Nedsel]

I am unaware of any policy by either Lime Rock Park or SAAC restricting entry to the Labor Day weekend car event(s) to original Cobras only. Last time I attended, there were plenty of originals as well as replicas.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

I am unaware of any policy by either Lime Rock Park or SAAC restricting entry to the Labor Day weekend car event(s) to original Cobras only. Last time I attended, there were plenty of originals as well as replicas.

With several posts here that seem to say that SAAC should not allow replica owners in the club, I'm glad to see the SAAC Original Cobra Registrar reply to say that just ain't so.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

1ntCobra;

I have been to a number of SAAC events and all replicas, Cobra or Shelby Mustang were always welcome there......The only thing replicas were not involved in that I know of is when they take the "group picture" of all the originals together at the event......

Actually Kopek and Howard Pardee were always very nice to me, taking time out from their busy schedule to talk to me.....a Shelby Mustang "clone" owner (2), cause I can't afford the real thing..........

I think this whole situation is going to hurt the overall scheme of things unless something can be worked out that will make both parties happy.......

SAAC has always been about the 60's era cars and Team Shelby seems to be about the new model cars, with open arms to the old cars....I think (JMHO) the old school guys with the 60's cars will stay with SAAC and the new, late model guys will go with Team Shelby.........

SAAC has carried the banner too long and has built itself up over 30+ years to just fade away, to me anyway......

Best of luck to both camps, for now, I'll sit on the sidelines and see how things unfold.....hoping for the best, but fearing the worst......

David

[computerworks]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

With several posts here that seem to say that SAAC should not allow replica owners in the club, I'm glad to see the SAAC Original Cobra Registrar reply to say that just ain't so.

Whaaaat? That's not what Ned said... Ned confirmed that there is no restriction on replicas by SAAC or Lime Rock for the Labor Day event.

Further....just for the record... there has never been a restriction by SAAC for membership if you have a replica...you don't have to own anything to be a member.

You are welcome as a replica owner to be a member, to attend events, to participate in Open Track at the National Convention, to enter the Popular Vote Show-and-Shine at National Conventions. The only restriction is that original-only cars are the only cars allowed to be judged in the Concours.

Are you a member? ...huh?