FFR's perky butt keeping it down?

[joey_hv]

So what is keeping FFR from being a top notch contender in the glass replica category to the likes of say ERA or Superformance? is it the non traditional chassis? or the perky booty or something else I missed?

[Bill Wells]

what ? i must be missing something ....with the thousands of units FFR has made, their various product offerings , on going r&d and improving their breed time and time again . i would say they already are a top notch offering for the put it together folks who dont want or can't afford a completed roller - or want a car more customized to their tastes .

I have seen FFR examples built by virtual amateurs that rival many rollers with some exceeding completed rollers- to say nothing of their lighter weight and power to weight advantage they can many times achieve with lesser powered motors than in heavier rollers .

sheez, get out the popcorn . post your comments on the FFR forum and be ready to run . Bill

[joey_hv]

I guess I was just going by resell value. no offense intended. just trying to learn here, trying to learn.

[SPF1061]

Joey HV -
Every replica manufacturer has their own strengths and weaknesses and as a result tend to carve out their own nitch in the market (or simply fade away). I personally am not too crazy for the current FFR body shape, though many people love it. It appears that their next generation bodies will be much more faithful to the originals and I think this will overall serve them well. I have seen some FFRs that could hold their own with just about any thing on the road (James' coupe comes to mind!) BUT, you cannot realistically expect to put (and I'm pulling theses numbers out of my a$$ for purpose of illustration) $30,000 into a car and have the same vehicle as a $60,000 car, or the $60,000 car to be the same as the $120,000 car....
I really don't think the folks at FFR intended for their cars to appeal to the same needs and desires (and budget) of say an ERA, or Kirkham, or .....
The beauty of the Cobra legacy is that it has inspired so many manufacturers to produce so many variations and options, that thrill and fun of owning and driving a "Cobra" is within the reach of so many of us average Joes.
It doesn't matter what brand climb into - just enjoy the ride!

[Maricopa]

The re-sale of FFRs is hurt because of the inconsistency of the end product (Some are incredible, most pretty damn good and some pretty damn poor), the 'incorrectness' issues and the simple fact that they tend to have less invested to begin with. I have about 25K in mine and I would probably ask 30-32K to start with when/if I sell it. If I'd built it with a Sideoiler, IRS and Trigos I'd ask more, just like somebody that builds an ERA or buys an SPF asks more for theirs. It simple reflects what they have in it.

As a side note I think there's simply a different market segment that buys FFRs beyond mine (the 'poor' segment ) and that's folks that don't want them traditional. They want a hot rod/race car and figure why pay for the correctness of an SPF/ERA etc, when they are going to put modern wheels, drivetrain and non-traditional paint jobs on them.

Just my take

[patrickt]

You can tell a lot by watching a Cobra drive away, as opposed to towards you. There is a difference, and once you're used to it, you can't miss it. Here's a shot my ERA from the rear.

[joey_hv]

That is one great rear end...

[Power Surge]

I agree with Maricopa. The FFR resale has been diluted as a whole because it's a "kit" car. That meaning, the finished product is the result of who built it and what parts were used. I'd be lying if I said I haven't seen a few FFRs that I wouldn't even go for a ride in out of safety for my life . And on the other end of the spectrum, there are some superbly done, no donor built FFRs. And FFR was my first Cobra, and I can tell you the "BASE" car as you get it from FFR is an outstanding design. Where it goes from there, is up to the owner. Another thing on the value end, is the starting price usually has a great affect on the finished price. People see the FFR as a $15k purchase, and when it comes selling time, they don't account for the other 10-15k in parts or all the man hours of labor. But people know an SPF or ERA roller costs $45k or so, so they see that as the "starting point" for their personal basis on end value.

Just my 2 cents.

[CobraEd]

Do the stripes normally taper like that? My car is solid red, so I have no frame of reference, but I didn't think they normally taper. Looks pretty good.

.

[289fia_cobra]

I think that is the key thing about FFR. They don't build their own cars and never will.
So the inconsistency argument is valid as mentioned above. Some spectacular, others I would be ashamed to say are from the same company as mine. ( FFR 4883 here.)

I'm sort of in the middle. Good build, nothing fancy but nothing like the original. Carbed, but using modern I-Squared electrical. Dual roll bars just make sense. Never liked the old fashioned Smith gauges so went AutoMeter. Highback seats because that made sense too.

I really am a refelection of the 'don't care for my ride to be exact. ' It's first and foremost a car built along the same premise as Carroll Shelby. A race car for the streets because of the homologation rules back in the 60's; a "gentler" bull.

But I really do admire those that have replicated the original. I have no gripes at all with that. And those around in NorCal don't really baby their SPF's either and that's a good thing. The cars were meant to be driven and driven hard.

As far as resale, I could care less to be honest. At the end of my driving life, I'll sell it for probably what I built it for (free labor.) I really did enjoy the building experience and learned to be an electrician, plumber and better mechanic after in the process and that is priceless.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by CobraEd

Do the stripes normally taper like that?

Yes, 7.5" at the top, tapering down to 7.25" at the top of the trunk, and ending with 6.25" at the very end of the stripes with a 1" separation between the stripes throughout.

[Dangerous Doug]

Don't forget about the psychological factor of their advertised low kit price of $16k (or something like that). This is a great hook for new buyers, and it seems profitable for FFR. However, when you go to sell an FFR the first thing a new buyer is going to think about is that pervasively advertised $16k starter kit price---that sets the anchor price, and everything else after that will be judged by that number. "So, you want $50k for an completed FFR? But, jeez, the KIT only cost $16k..."

This effect (not on FFR's but in general) was studied extensively by Kanneman and Traversky (I think I got the spelling correct) at Stanford U.

[RACER X #99]

For those who just want a track Cobra, I don't think any other brand can come close. Least expensive kit to purchase, most run on better performing 17" radials which also allow larger brakes. Some may laugh at the Mustang inspired suspension but many REAL race cars have Mustang suspension components.
Without the FFR Spec racers there would be no REAl Cobras racing. The Shelby spec series did not take off. (too expensive)

If you want something that looks just like an original Cobra then the FFR is probably not for you.
If you just wanna go fast in a lightweight racer give the Smith Bros a call.

BTW I don't own a FFR.

RD

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by joey_hv

That is one great rear end...

Never underestimate the power of a perfectly proportioned posterior.

[RACERAL]

Now, to answer your question.. the FFR ass end was designed that way intentionally. Because of the use of the stock Mustang gas tank.
Kirkham and ERA are the only 2 with the correct body shape.

[JAM1775]

I not sure I agree with Sal's assertion that "FFR's resale has been diluted as a whole because it's a kitcar" as many folks home build ERA's, Midstates, Shell Valley, Unique and even CSX cars. If the car is not built with quality it will not be reliable or safe and may not sit well in the Cobra resale market proportionate to it's build cost.

My 8 yr old FFR MK1 definitely has a lesser quality body and other components than a higher cost kit or component replicas. Although, in '99 I chose not to use all donor parts in the build a factor contributing to cost reduction was the huge support of affordable Ford Mustang aftermarket parts. FFR's resale value is proportionate to the investment price range they occupy within the industry. FFR never set out to target the top end "glass replicas" . The affordability of FFR was the company objective. However, they have come a very long way in body/chassis and overall improvements since my prehistoric MK1 which still stops folks dead on the street. The newest FFR body plus "fully complete kit" minus drivetrain & tires eliminates the aftermarket requirement . The builder buys everything from FFR. Cost is higher but it still appears FFR's target audience is the same while quality is enhanced. They never shot for the top slots. That is why they remain a major player in the cobra replica industry. I high end cost Cobra is well beyond my reach. That's why I'd also sure love to see them expand to full rollers.....you never know.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RACERAL

...Kirkham and ERA are the only 2 with the correct body shape.

The CSX-4xxx cars don't look that bad....

[FFRBob]

There are still some quality control issues that FFR needs to work out. I have a Mark 3 and there are several problems that I had when building the car. The door striker mounts don't line up with the door latches. I ended up cutting the mounts off and bolting new ones on. The perky butt now drives me nuts after seeing other replicas. The nose aluminum doesn't fit for garbage. The under door aluminum was completely useless, but they've fixed it since and offered to sell me a piece that works for $60. Forget that. The pre-drilled quick jack holes in the front were drilled too low which causes the whole body to stick up a bit on the driver side. The hood scope still isn't centered or straight on the hood. Lowering the steering shaft 1/2" would make installing a brake booster a lot easier. I would love to see a toploader transmission mount option, I had to fabricate an intermediary mount to make it work. The sidepipe mounts that attach to the hangers always end up cracking at the weld. There is not enough adjustment in the door hinge assemblies to get them to line up well, I had to open up the elongated holes to make them work. All of these things are simple fixes, yet continue to be ignored and that drives me nuts.

On the upside, I built a big-block FFR for around $40k that turned out very nice. I get all kinds of complements everywhere I go. Since it uses Mustang suspension and brake parts, maintenance and repairs are easy and inexpensive. The frame is nice and stout, so I feel reasonably safe in the car and that's probably the most important feature. The body work wasn't really all that bad. If I could actually afford to do it again, I don't know that I'd choose FFR, though. The Hurricanes look really nice and I'd take a long hard look at their product.

I know I got off topic a little, but I had to say my peace. I feel better now, thanks for letting me rant

The car wasn't quite done when I took this picture. It's farther along now, with just a few minor things to finish. I've had too much fun driving it to work on it. Excuse the messy garage:

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by JAM1775

I not sure I agree with Sal's assertion that "FFR's resale has been diluted as a whole because it's a kitcar" as many folks home build ERA's, Midstates, Shell Valley, Unique and even CSX cars. If the car is not built with quality it will not be reliable or safe and may not sit well in the Cobra resale market proportionate to it's build cost.

Right, but you can ONLY get an FFR as a kit, no exceptions. You can get most of those other cars built by the factory, and that makes for a consistant, quality built car, sold for a higher price. That's what I meant by my statement.

[Dangerous Doug]

The funny thing about all the various body differences, is that the non-initiated can barely tell the difference between a 289FIA and a 427 S/C.

I don't know how many times I had read my "Complete Guide to Cobra Replicas" and studied the various manufacturers and the photos, before I began to realize that the SPF body was different from the ERA body was (slightly) different from the Kirkham body.

I did see a silver FFR in Scotts Valley last week that had quite the perky butt. I think the owner had larger tires in the back and this made the car look jacked up with the signature FFR perky posterior. Didn't look right to me, but it didn't stop the teenagers on the corner from dropping to their knees and bowing, "We're not worthy!"

I went with ERA because the snake bite I got was from an original 289FIA at the Monterey Historic Auto Races, and I "wanted THAT body". Looked far and wide, and stopped dead in my tracks when I saw an ERA 289FIA in real life (at Athens at the NorCal Cobra breakfast one morning).

DD