Shelby vs SAAC

[TERRY M KRYSTOFIAK]

I too own two Shelbys...A '66 gt350 & a '67 gt500. I am quite concerned about the vin's getting out. Let's take a possible senerio. Im looking to buy a '66 gt350. Borrowed on the house,rat holed money from the wife etc. Big step,alot of money. I now have a choice to verify my purchase..SAAC (Howard Pardee) or Team Shelby. Now keep in mind, one has a proven track record, the other would sell a dead horse to a Mounty and charge him for the saddle....and for a CASH donation to the heart fund tell you what ever you want to here....tough decission. With respect to SAAC and all the different chapters they have always welcomed replicas and other Ford products at events I have attended.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

There is no other car event where you can see as many REAL and not so real Cobras in one place.
I have had many years at SAAC events mixing it up on the track with original Cobras and found many of the owners more hospitable than some of the replica owners who post here.

If you have never attended a SAAC event you have missed out on a good time.

At the SAAC bash at VIR, during one of the open track sessions I ran down the front straight at 135mph, door handle to door handle with the late/great Dick Smith, I backed off the gas at the end and got behind him, mainly cause his ball$ were a lot bigger than mine........after the session he found me in the paddock and we had a very freindly chat, he told me he made a dent in the floor under the accelarator trying to pass me and then looked over my POS 65 Mustang Coupe race car and had nothing but good to say about it!!!!!!!!!!!!

Howard Pardee and Kopec both had time in their busy schedules to talk to me and I found them both very nice guys........I never did see any of the BS about real/replicas there.......Each group of show cars had their designated area to park and that was that........

Going to the yearly SAAC meet is like stepping back in time with soo many original cars there......You will see everything from the 2000 series cars up to the latest 4000 series cars.........My favorite has always been the "survivor" cars....unrestored, all original cars, still just like they were made in the 60's!!!!!!!!!!!!!

David

[RACER X #99]

Dave, here is a photo of the late Dick Smith signing the "Club Cranky" banner at VIR and not a REAL Cobra in site. Some people just know how to have a good time together weather their car is REAL or not.

BTW we had a beautiful CSX 7000 replica in our camp.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Dave, here is a photo of the late Dick Smith signing the "Club Cranky" banner at VIR and not a REAL Cobra in site. Some people just know how to have a good time together weather their car is REAL or not.

Roger; I met Dick Smith a few years before VIR in Tulsa at that SAAC meet, even let him park next to me at the hotel ........I got a picture of it somewhere.

We had a BBQ set-up in the hotel parking lot and had it going as well as some "liquid refreshments"..... Dick came by and had we not know who he was (we recognized him from photos) you'd thought he was just a "regular Joe" there....that's what impressed me the most about him, very unassuming fellow and a friend to everyone, regardless of what car you owned,if you even owned one!!!!!!!!!!!

Through the years I've met a lot of folks at SAAC events, gladly most were like Dick....... Some years back, I was pestering a guy with all kinds of questions about his two, 65 GT-350s,poor guy, one was a street car and the other a Vintage Racer.....I guess he got tired of me bugging him about the race car with all kinds of questions, so he told me to go find a helmet and come back, which I did and then I strapped in and got 4 hot laps around the track......Nicest guy in the world, we are close friends now and have been ever since that day....even though I have a POS 66 GT-350 CLONE....When he saw my street car he was actually impressed with it as to how accurate it was to an original 66 GT-350 and this guy restores Shelby's for a living!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think he also has very bad eyesight

I've also met a few of the "upper echelon" folks who wouldn't give you the time of day if their lives depended on it, but, thankfully they are few in numbers and easy to spot a mile away, those, I just ignore and stay away from..........

David

[REAL 1]

Sal is correct and accurate in his statements. I second them and in fact that has been what I've always said.

Moreover just for clarification on the poll choices the author of the poll should correct the choices as both SAAC and Team Shelby consider the Continuatin Series as REAL/genuine Cobras.

We all know how to have a good time at SAAC and I do every time I go. Unfortunately the REAL issue here is those that knock Shelby cars as "replicas" when they are genuine/REAL Shelby Cobras even if not of the original series. I don't see it as "elitist" because a Continuatin owner considers or refers to his Cobra as a REAL Cobra.

Some guys (not me) get satisfaction out of knocking what others have. There will always be guys like that unfortunately. We know who they are. Those guys need to tell Team Shelby that their first magazine contains a number of mistakes like the article referring the the Continuation Series as the "REAL" deal and their ads referring the them as such and that such statements are "elitist".

Maybe those guys can inform Amy right here to publish corrections in the next issue.

BTW I do not necessarily agree with Shelby not renewing SAAC's license to use the Cobra mark etc..I think this was wrong in light of all SAAC has done.

[RACER X #99]

What is it that is so hard for you to understand? Nobody is knocking CSX 4000 replicas they are the finest Cobras being REPRODUCED by Shelby. Since he was the originator his is the only Co. that can actually REPRODUCE a Cobra.
All the other companys are making look alike Cobras including Kirkham and some will argue that many of them are a better product but that is not the issue here.

Are they REAL Shelby Cobras, of course they are because they are being REPRODUCED by Shelby.

You and some of the other 4000 owners can argue all day about what is and is not REAL but in the end you own REAL Shelby REPRODUCTION.

I am not making this up here is a quote from Shelby in the May 25 1992 issue of Autoweek. "Hell, I may even get in the replica business myself."
The was before the REPRODUCTION Cobras came on the market.

I say if you have a problem with your car being called a replica maybe the problem is with you and not your car.

I only wish I could own your car, it would sure be a thrill on the back straight at WGI

[REAL 1]

Yeah, I do have a problem with my car being called a "replica". Its not a replica of a Cobra. It is a genuine Cobra. We all know what the intended infrerence/implication is by you and others referring the the Continuation series as a "reproduction" or "replica". Your use the word "replica" and "reproduction" is intended to imply it is not a real cobra but fake. Period. You know this.

I think the fair use of the word "replica" should be used for reference to all "non Shelby Cobra" look alikes. SAAC seems to agree with me and so does Team Shelby. This is all I've been saying for years and have been maligned for doing so. And..just so you know I have never knocked "replicas". I have high regard for the quality of cars such as ERA, Spf and others and admire them.

Why is it so hard for you and your buddies just to refer to the CSX Continuation Series as a Continuation Series Cobra and accept it for what it is, a REAL Cobra but NOT an original. Thats exactly what it is. This is not an "elitist" thing at all despite the allegations by you and others. Not at all. Such allegations were simply not fair or true.

Maybe if you were nice I might have even let you take 4206 on the back straight at Watkins Glenn or take her for a spin since you live close by but you haven't been very nice soooo ...forget it!

[Chaplin]

rep·li·ca /ˈrɛplɪkə/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[rep-li-kuh] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a copy or reproduction of a work of art produced by the maker of the original or under his or her supervision.


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/replica

Seems to me that Series 4000 are the only true replicas.

Everything else is just a fakeydo!

But Continuation Series is an acceptable description as well.

[REAL 1]

Thank you Chaplin, but we've been down the "dictionary" road before. Nice try though.

The "replica" definition as used in the dictionary is really directed at items in the fine arts, statutes, paintings etc... All those replicated after the original are replicas/reproductions if coming from the original maker. Fine art originals are usually intended to be one of a kind and are usually not intended to be replicated at time of original creatin or impossible to replicate "exactly" when originally made but sometimes can be in prints, molds of statutes etc, etc...when popular. It would be hard for a artist to paint the same painting exactly the same twice including brush strokes etc...but others after the original can be replicated or reproduced if not exactly at least close facsimiles or copied by print, mold etc...

Cars (not being in the class of fine art), are, however, usually intended to be built in mass number one just like the last, exactly. If you want to use the literal definition of "replica" as you cite then every CSX after CSX 2000 and CSX 3000 are also "replicas". Clearly this is not accurate is it? Nor do we commonly understand them or accept them as replicas do we?

Lets get REAL. We all know what the common understanding and meaning is when people refer to something as a "replica". We all know they intend to say or ask "is this a REAL one or a fake." Lets not play word games. Lets be fair here.

Thank you.

[4pipes]

Will this crap EVER go away! It's ruining this site for me. HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[REAL 1]

Don't read it if you don't like it. Simple enough right?

Being that you only have 200 some posts I'll inform you this topic as been here long before you got here and will likely be here for a long time to come.

Clearly others consider worth discussing and it is a Cobra related issue.

[xlr8or]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

We all know what the common understanding and meaning is when people refer to something as a "replica". We all know they intend to say or ask "is this a REAL one or a fake." Lets not play word games. Lets be fair here.

Thank you.

No word games involved here Evan. When people ask if it's real they are not asking if it's a Shelby or Kirkham and wouldn't know the difference. They are asking if its an original and the correct answer for you is the same as all the other replicas.

I'm not trying to antagonize you here. I have been asked the exact question you quoted "is this a REAL one or a fake" dozens and dozens of times and what they wanted to know was if the car was an "ORIGINAL" as in built in the 60's or not.

[REAL 1]

Fair enough. I absolutely agree that when most people ask is it real they want to know if it is an original. But I don't agree with you that my answer should be the same as "other replicas owners" because the Shelby is not a replica of a Cobra it is a Cobra. Not a hard concept here. I'm sure replica owners would like my answer to be the same as theirs but it aint.

When I'm asked if my car is REAL, my answer and the fair answer is, "Yes it is, its a new Continuation series Cobra from Shelby American". Thats what I routinely say and never has anyone walked away with the impression its a 60 year old orignal (at least I don't see how they could). The vast reaction and response has been acceptance as a REAL Cobra with the understanding its not an original.

Thats makes it pretty clear. No misrepresentations there. You don't have an issue with this do you? If you do you need to notify SAAC, Team Shelby and Amy to correct their statements. Start posting.

[Power Surge]

This is a perfect example of why this subject will never die... because there are more than one views on it.

I do agree that there are those here that purposely get these debates going, simply for entertainment. I also agree that there are those here that truely see new Shelby Cobras as just another replica. And then there are those here who feel the cars are legit Shelby Cobras. On top of that, you've got different WAYS of promoting, or arguing, each view.

Dispite people who want to say otherwise, new Shelby Cobras, are real Shelby Cobras. You can spin the terminology anyway you'd like to benefit your side of the debate, but that will only change the outcome in your own mind.

This has nothing to do with "originals" either. We're not talking about people passing new Cobras off as originals here, we're talking about discrediting new Shelby Cobras, and their place in the registry.

The fact is, Shelby sold Cobras. Shelby stopped selling Cobras. Shelby started selling Cobras again. Plain and simple. They are new, real, Shelby Cobras. Many auto makers stop making certain models of cars, and then start making them years later. Are they fakes? Are they reproductions? No. They are new cars made in a different period in time.

In one of these debates a while back, I asked any one of the CSX "discreditors" to walk up to Carroll and tell him to his face that his new Shelby Cobras are fake and not real Cobras. I'm still waiting on that one.

And for those of you who like to tag certain people here in manners based on their views or what kind of car they own, my views are not CSX-elitist. I felt this same way when I owned my FFR, and then again when I owned my KMP. I own a CSX because I wanted a CSX. I don't think my car is better than anyone else's. I don't think I am better than anyone else because I own a CSX.

[REAL 1]

Amen, brother, Amen.

[Dangerous Doug]

original = Cobra from the 60's

genuine = made by Shelby

replica = made by someone else other than Shelby, "looks like a Cobra"

real = this is where is seems to get sticky. If I had a CSX4000 and someone asked me, I'd tell them it was a real, genuine Shelby. If they pressed the issue (knowing more than the novice on the street) I'd admit that it's a CSX4000, not an original from the 1960's. No shame in that.

My car is not a real Cobra. No shame in that. I would never represent it as genuine/real/original Shelby. It is a replica of a car that, last I saw, was selling for $2.1M. I can't afford that. My car is fiberglass, but when done will be outside the price range of just about anyone that asks me if it's real. If they're disappointed, Oh, well! I still like it, and am thrilled that I own it.

Maybe we should all just get over ourselves and enjoy our Cobras?

[xlr8or]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Fair enough. I absolutely agree that when most people ask is it real they want to know if it is an original.

Good, glad you acknowledged that the intent of the question about "REAL" is whether it's an original car.

Originally Posted by REAL1

When I'm asked if my car is REAL, my answer and the fair answer is, "Yes it is, its a new Continuation series Cobra from Shelby American"

hmmmm.. Do you read what you type before you post it?

You can say it's not an elitist thing all you want but when you describe the "non-shelby" owners as "HAVE NOTS" you are proving thier point.

[John McMahon]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Why is it so hard for you and your buddies just to refer to the CSX Continuation Series as a Continuation Series Cobra and accept it for what it is, a REAL Cobra but NOT an original.

Let it be known that old Racer X actually has his own cerebelum and does not need to converse with those he calls his friends prior to making any statements about CSX4000 automobiles. I have personally seen him walk and talk on his own without help from his friends, he IS capable of independent thought.

No need to think his buddies help him make decisions.... he actually functions like most normal human beans.

[computerworks]

(speaking as just me )

Saying that a CSX4000 car is "a real Cobra" to an unsuspecting tourist in conversation is simply a boldface lie. We all know what they infer from that statement. Adding an asterisk-explanation about some rebirth 40 years later is just sort of back-pedaling.

Saying that "no, it is a new car, made by the same guy that made 'em in the 60's" is far more truthful.

There is a world of difference in both those statements. And the second one takes nothing away from an exceptional example of the genre.

Which one you use is dictated on just whose fantasy you are trying to fuel.

I love ya, but you can sure crap up a thread on a regular basis.

[Rickd]

Computerworks. Agreed, why can't the simple truthfull answer be told. "Shelby started to build them again in the late 90's, offering both fibreglass and aluminum bodies, and this is one of his continuation series cars". "The limited originals that were made are commanding $400,000 - $8 million dollars or more". This would be not only truthfull and more accurate, but also informative to the "unsuspecting novice".