Shelby vs SAAC

[fsstnotch]

Originally Posted by A-Snake

For clarity sake, the new Shelby Cobras are not identical in many many ways.

Yes, but as right as you are, they are essentially identical in most aspects. the changes are mostly miniscule. Nothing drastic like a totally reshaped body and such.

They're still genuine cobras and nothing more to me.

[Excaliber]

I'm with SAAC. More out of disgust with Shelby than for any other reason.

Mostly identical? Heck, an FFR is 'mostly identical'. It's either right or it's wrong. Mostly the modern ones are wrong.

You want right? Talk to Computerworks about his Kirkham!

[fsstnotch]

"HONK if your being sued by Carroll".

That's just wrong!

[Sal Gerace]

[quote=computerworks](speaking as just me )

Saying that a CSX4000 car is "a real Cobra" to an unsuspecting tourist in conversation is simply a boldface lie. We all know what they infer from that statement. Adding an asterisk-explanation about some rebirth 40 years later is just sort of back-pedaling.

Saying that "no, it is a new car, made by the same guy that made 'em in the 60's" is far more truthful.
QUOTE]
Ron, way too much explanation just for the "unsuspecting tourist". Getting into a lengly explanation with someone who obviously cannot tell an original from any other is just reason enough not to get too deep into an explanation. I would not mind teaching someone who is truely interested in Cobras. And can show that interest with something interesting in the conversation that tells me that they are an ehthusiast of at least Fords if nothing else. Interest in Cobras is not the motivation for the question. I think people see Cabras as kit cars and not real cars so it's a natural question for most.

[Naumoff]

Interested stranger asked "is it real"

CSX4000 owner "It is a new Shelby Cobra."


"A new one?"

"Yes, Carroll Shelby started making them again in the 90's."

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by Naumoff

Interested stranger asked "is it real"

CSX4000 owner "It is a new Shelby Cobra."


"A new one?"

"Yes, Carroll Shelby started making them again in the 90's."

That's pretty much exactly what I say. It usually sparks into conversation of me explaining all about the new cars and people seem to enjoy hearing it.

[Excaliber]

It has been my experience that most people I talk to are all ready aware that Shelby is making new Cobras. Many of them mention that to me before I even bring it up. Those that aren't aware of that fact might ask something like, "Is that an old Corvette?"

It's pretty common knowledge these days to most anyone who knows what a Cobra is without having to ask what it is.

[Fast Farmer]

It is vital to keep the Shelby product Registry unbiased and beyond reproach as the undeniable authority on the legitimacy of individual vehicles via VIN numbers and chain of ownership, etc... In this regard I agree with PowerSurge and others that SAAC must prevail in keeping and managing the documentation for provenance of these vintage Shelby products.

I have heard through the years that the volume of documents from Shelby Cobra and Shelby Mustang production is rather large. We, as a group on this forum, do not know the details of this arrangement. Are we talking gift or open-ended lending? In another thread What's a Cobra suggested copying the material and giving it back. That may be the best answer if financially feasable. If the documentation was a gift, maybe Carroll should foot the bill to copy everything.

There was a time where CS thought that SAAC was a good organization for new series CSX Cobra owners to belong to. He ponied up for a one year membership for all those owners, myself included. I have been a SAAC member since 1981, and appreciated the gesture in the spirit it was given.

I don't know enough details about the CS licensing expiration and option not to renew SAAC rights to same, to comment or choose sides.

Fast Farmer

[A-Snake]

Originally Posted by Fast Farmer

It is vital to keep the Shelby product Registry unbiased and beyond reproach as the undeniable authority on the legitimacy of individual vehicles via VIN numbers and chain of ownership, etc... In this regard I agree with PowerSurge and others that SAAC must prevail in keeping and managing the documentation for provenance of these vintage Shelby products.

I have heard through the years that the volume of documents from Shelby Cobra and Shelby Mustang production is rather large. We, as a group on this forum, do not know the details of this arrangement. Are we talking gift or open-ended lending? In another thread What's a Cobra suggested copying the material and giving it back. That may be the best answer if financially feasable. If the documentation was a gift, maybe Carroll should foot the bill to copy everything.

Fast Farmer

Fast Farmer, I posted a comment on the Registry on the thread "rumor control--has SAAC lost its use of Shelby name?" that might interest you. The information from Shelby's attic only makes up a portion of what is in the Registry.

http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/show...466#post802466

[Mumblerone]

Not to fully support Carroll; BUT I still get the warm and fuzzys when I think of a Shelby Cobra. Goes all the way back to when I was at the Sebring 12 Hours in 1965 when I happened into the Shelby pits; and stayed for 12 hours. Very hard to forget a dream that started 48 years ago and continues.

So I ask a question: What would you be driving right now if Carroll had not put his hand on AC in 1962 or so; Cheeta, Chaparral, AC (probably not), etc?

As long as the MAN's alive I've got to stay with him. I hope; ultimately SAAC and Shelby can work something out; certainly there has been room for both.

I think I will now go into my garage an look at my 'replica'. I also have some regrets selling my GT-350 for $1500 back in 1972, also. Walt

[RedEsprit]

I do not own an original (which I and most would define as a vehicle manufactured by AC Cars, Ltd. and of 1960s vintage) nor do I belong to SAAC. But if I had a real dog in this fight (there's that word "real" again), I would be more than concerned about losing SAACs stewardship of the records to Shelby or any of his companies. Whether they like my replica or not (State of Florida put 1966 replica on my title so that's that!), SAAC has done a remarkable job over many years that helped to secure the worth of the original vehicles which we know can be easily duplicated right down to the last bolt. My gut feeling would be to be very suspect of the longevity of Shelby's stewardship (or lack thereof) of what are obviously important records. As opposed to his track record in racing, his track record in business is less than stellar. My bet is that the records will simply end back up in his attic. Christ, I here he's got another 90 chassis up there.

[fsstnotch]

Walt, its not so much a matter of everyone just hating on CS himself. I think the biggest issue with SAAC not being the bearer of the registry, or actually, CS being the bearer... Is that CS obviously has no integrity! As shown by the 3000 or "completion" cars which were blatant lies. If CS has the power to maintain or possibly fudge the registry, there is just too much greed to maintain its integrity. The registry should be maintained by a third party, plain and simple.

[Mumblerone]

ffstnotch...Oh, I understand. Just got the letter from SAAC today and have been reading this thread an others. Get home soon...hope it all works out. Thanks. Walt

[Excaliber]

I was on the fence until it became clear that Shelby was moving for a hostile take over of SAAC. They filed for the name a couple of days before they even notified SAAC the license would not be renewed. Shelby didn't even tell Amy B., essentially he USED her to spin good press while behind her back he filed against SAAC. Think about it...

That's it for me, I cannot continue to turn my back and sing Shelby praises when the EVIDENCE and the HISTORY overwhelmingly support the FACT that Shelby will attack, sue, crush or ruin ANYBODY that gets in his way.

I simply don't care to be associated with someone whose moral and ethical values are in the gutter. I will not drink the stinkin' Shelby Kool Aid again. And don't start with what a 'nice guy' he is and all the 'charity' works he does. Dictators aren't idiots, they fully understand the value of being a nice guy while they crush the opposition and 'spin' the press.

"I am not a crook", someone once said that, if the shoe fits...

[Allan A]

Johan,

All they say at the Shelby American Collection is that if they catch a CSX 4000 car vintage racing in their group they will quit.

Not sure who you talked with, but this is slowly moving in another direction out here in the West. Vintage groups are changing, as the REAL 2000 and 3000 cars go up up up in value, the owners are starting to pull them off the track. Only the crazy rich will take them out in fear of damage. As long as the car is true to the original (brakes, motor etc) you will have a chance to race.

[Jamo]

Thing is, there are crazy rich basturds taking them out there.

[CHANMADD]

Well here's another interpretation posted by 1985CCX !
Is it genuine or real?

Genuine AC Cobra at Bergerac concours

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YAHz...eature=related

[Trevor Legate]

Non-real
Non-genuine
Call for the lawyers!!!!

(However, it's 'real' automobile since, if you hit it with a hammer you'd leave a large hole in the 'glass, so it does exist. However, to call it genuine is either a huge mistake at best, or fraud at worst. Only Cobras that began life within the AC factory in Thames Ditton twixt the years 1962 - 1968, without exception, can be called 'genuine' by any dictionary definition of the word. Most were completed at Shelby American, others at AC Cars. Anything else is - something else. I thought everyone knew that... :-)

[1ntCobra]

Trevor,

It is hard to tell from the quality of the video, but couldn't that be a genuine AC MkIV?

[Steve Cassani]

Carroll Shelby is in his mid-eighties, with a second heart transplant carrying him that far. Any modified Mustangs and other cars marketed using his name after his death face an uncertain future. Will they be accepted as 'Shelby Mustangs' one two or three years later, and does their status continue with the same degree of fidelity to Shelby's contribution to automobile history?

Shelby is trying to construct a basis for continuing not only the cars identified with him but also the legacy his employees and investors depend upon for thier livelihood. The people who participate in the businesses that carry his name accept a greater risk of declining benefit after he dies if the history that supports his image and the market driven by it is entrusted to any but those who are involved in the manufacture and merchandising of Shelby products. Carroll Shelby is doing what he can to honor his employees' committment by giving them every opportunity to control their future.

The companies affiliated under Shelby's name are like those managed by itelligent, skilled people whose talents are nurtured by Warren Buffet. Will Berkshire Hathaway continue to attract decicated, patient investors at the rate it does now after Buffet passes away? Or is there a celebrity to owning shares in B-H, a trinket for dangling at cocktail parties? Our affinity for personalities suggests to any well-publicised manager a need to provide for those who wuill count on his name after he can no longer appear at the parties. How long will it take for us to forget all about Shelby? And there is this: The future in the automobile business rarely last much beyond the introduction of the next model and, apart from his recent work with Ford and an earlier partnership with Dodge, Shelby has not had many new models to kindle interest. There is only his name... Auto aficinados know the name 'Preston Tucker' and today we know Carroll Shelby. In a few years, people will recall his name. There's a difference....