What kind of 351 Windsor Do I Have

GreenSnakeDoc · #1 (**permalink**) 01-23-2008, 11:41 AM

Engine came with an older B & B and sure looks like a 351 W. Wider up top than a 289/302 series. Casting number above the starter motor is "D1AE-6015-DA 10", which shows it's a 1971 block and I think I've seen some referances to the 6015 number. Inside the valley is Ford's oval and "851 WF10". Coolant comes out horizontally from the Edelbrock Performer intake with "351 W" cast into the top. Bore is 4.040" and stroke is about 3.5" from the slight wear pattern in the cylinder bores. That's 351.8 for the stock bore as it was rebuilt 12K miles ago. Now, the reason I'm concerned is that I'm trying to fit a 427W stroker kit into it. The crank sets right into the main bearings with the old bearings in the place. When I put in a piston & rod(with bearings) and connect it to the crank throw, I measure with a digital caliper that the top of the piston is .100" below the deck. I can almost turn the crank to bring the piston to bottom dead center and the drop measurement is 4.220. There's a bit of interferance between the counter weight and the pistons balance pad, so I figure a little bit of grinding on the counter weight O.D. will probably get me another .050".
Therefore, Stroke should be 4.220" + .050" -.100" = 4.170" as advertised. So,
why is the top of the piston .100" in the hole instead of the .016" according to the specs I've found? Just to get close, I used a 12" ruler and measured from the deck to a dowel in the bearing bore and I get roughly 8 1/8". Add one half the bearing diameter of 3.000" and I get a center height of the block deck of 8.625", where various sources say its 9.5" (9.480" for '69,'70 & '71.) That kinda explains why my piston is down .100". The spec on the con rod is 6.125" bearing-to-bearing center, and the deck height of the pison is 1.280", both of which I've verified with dial calipers. That means the top of the piston at TDC should be 4.170"/2 + 6.125" + 1.280" = 9.490" (a little under the 351W deck height). And one more thing, instructions for engine assembly say that the bottom of each cylinder skirt needs to be notched in order to clear the nut on the con rod, but I'm able to turn the crank (both directions) and bring the piston up to TDC without notching. Has anybody seen anything like this before? I could probably find another rod or flat-top piston to bring compression ratio between 9.5 and 10.0, but what if this is some odd-ball block that wouldn't let aftermarket 351W heads and intake match up?

CobraEd · #2 (**permalink**) 01-23-2008, 11:54 AM

What color is it ???

.

Ron61 · #3 (**permalink**) 01-23-2008, 11:55 AM

I am not sure how much this will help but the D1AE-6015-DA 10 breaks down like this from the book that I have. It was a 1971 as you said, the A means it originally came in a Galaxie, and the E = Engine engineering. The 6015 is for the base engine and the rest indicates if a part has been changed. But there are so many variations on this that I am not sure just what all of it means. As for all the measurements, you will have to wait for one of the engine guys to really answer your question.

Ron

blykins · #4 (**permalink**) 01-23-2008, 11:59 AM

So you can't get to TDC because the counterweight is hitting the piston skirt?

Also, you want about .060" between the rod bolts and the cylinder skirts. Some blocks need minor clearancing, some don't.

blykins · #5 (**permalink**) 01-23-2008, 12:02 PM

Some more questions:

What brand is the crank? Verify that the stroke is 4.170". A 4.170" crank is generally a 400M crank offset ground. I'm concerned that you received some wrong parts. On such a long stroke, I would imagine that the rod length would need to be longer and the piston compression height would need to be shorter. That may be why you're getting some interference.

For instance, on my 445W, I'm using a 4.100" stroke crank, but the rod length is 6.200". I would think you should be using a 6.200" or a 6.250" rod with a short piston.

blykins · #6 (**permalink**) 01-23-2008, 12:07 PM

Edit:

I looked on Coast High's website. You have the right parts.

4.170" stroke, 6.125" rod, 1.28" piston.

Something else is up. You sure you're not mis-reading the calipers? Maybe .010"?

Jac Mac · #7 (**permalink**) 01-23-2008, 12:31 PM

351w main brg tunnel bore is 3.193" so 1/2 is 1.596". Now if you recheck your deck to tunnel dimension you will find that is around 7 7/8" ( 7.875" ) and if you add 7.875" + 1.596" = 9.471" [ pretty close to the Windsor 9.480"]

Now you say your crank is 4.170" stroke;therefore 1/2 stroke is --2.085" + 6.125"rod + 1.280" pin height to give a total of 9.490" which if your block when measured accurately checks out will give you a 0.010" out the top of the block piston protrusion. If you find this is the case you should look for a later block whick has a deck height of around 9.510" or if possible [ might not be practical ] machine the piston crown to give the correct piston to head clearance- dont forget to recheck valve pocket depths/clearance.

Jac Mac

CHANMADD · #8 (**permalink**) 01-23-2008, 12:57 PM

Yea, but he said the piston is below the deck,maybe the rods need to be different ,slightly longer so that the piston will sit correct and the crank will not hit the piston??

GreenSnakeDoc · #9 (**permalink**) 01-23-2008, 01:07 PM

Thanks for some quick responses guys. I talked with the kit supplier and they've sold thousands of these with no complaints about fitment. When I start turning the crank to bring the piston up the bore, I have about 5/8" clearance between the nut on the con rod and the skirt. The I-Beam rod has about 1/2" clearance.When I took a rough measurement to try to get deck to main centerline, I left a bearing half in place, so we're not using the actual bearing bore through the block and caps. Nominal main bearing size on the crank is 3.000", so the I.D. of the block sleeves should be about 3.001". Half of this added to 8.125" gives approximately 9.625". I'll take another look at this making sure the ruler is parallel with the cylinder bore and use the actual block main bore size. On my lunch hour, I dropped the old crank in place, but I couldn't get a piston back in. I wanted to see where the "rebuilt" piston was with respect to the deck.

blykins · #10 (**permalink**) 01-23-2008, 01:22 PM

Can you post a picture of the block?

GreenSnakeDoc · #11 (**permalink**) 01-24-2008, 06:01 PM

Mystery solved guys: it's a real 351 W. My mistake was using the old main bearing bottoms in order to keep from marring the new ones as the crank was going to be going in and out a lot. I new it when I put the old crank back in and it spun very freely. What happened is the old crank was re-conditioned .020" smaller, which naturally had .020" tighter bearing sleeves. With only about .001" clearance desired, the undersize sleeves wouldn't let the crank sit in the bottoms of the mains. I put new mains in, dropped the crank in, connected a rod & piston, and voila - the pistons are now .016" under the deck: right on spec. Keep this in mind if anyone else should run into this situation. Now, if anyone wants to know why a Brittish wire wheel won't come off the axle stub, even though it moves freely for a half inch, let me know. This one had the people at Dayton Wire Wheels and a couple other sport car restorers baffled.