Pick your side

[Excaliber]

Were seeing a similiar argument being played out in courts now concerning 'fraud' against real estate agents, banks, mortage officials, etc. The people DID sign a contract, the argument is they signed under false pretenses. An excessive appraisal perhaps, or just simply an unscrupulous lender with grossly misleading details concerning the contract. Perhaps key parts were 'glossed over', or they were told 'not to worry', or even flat out lied too. Take your pick...

[REAL 1]

Ned: Then I misunderstood what Luft said in his letter.

Its clear there was a licensing agreement signed in 1999 though.

[Chaplin]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Ned: Then I misunderstood what Luft said in his letter.

Its clear there was a licensing agreement signed in 1999 though.

That's ok Evan, we're used to you misrepresenting "the facts" on all things Shelby

(calm down, just a joke)

[Nedsel]

Evan, to be fair, there was some confusion over whether an agreement was ever actually signed, so Rick could have been quite honestly explaining that he and Ken never signed the final document.

[REAL 1]

Ned: Yes. That there was confusion as to whether their was an agreement seem clear from the correspondence but it does seem clear (at least from Luft's letters) now that there was one.

Thanks.

[JohnWorthing848]

http://64.224.94.5/files/csl-vs-saac.pdf

It is all here, licence agreement: Exhibit A!

[Jamo]

As Evan has assplained several times (rightfully so), the bestest place to start in a contract dispute is to read the contract.

[Chaplin]

Originally Posted by Jamo

As Evan has assplained several times (rightfully so), the bestest place to start in a contract dispute is to read the contract.

Another form of the old adage, "When all fails read the directions!"

[Don]

RE: 1:08-cv-10131-LTS SHELBY AMERICAN AUTOMOBILE CLUB, INC. v. CARROLL SHELBY LICENSING, INC.

The above US District Court reference had previously been posted. PACER ( Public Access to Court Electronic Records ) is a fee based system to access the documents.

PACER Service Center Home Page

I asked the PACER Service Center for additional information and clarification, the reply is included below. Public access is available by registering and the fee with use of a credit card is $ . 08 per page. I have not referenced the documents, but did want to share with everyone there is a method to obtain the US District Court information, which may be the same as referenced earlier by JohnWorthing848 in his Reply

From: pacermail@psc.uscourts.gov
Subject: Re: Court Filing Access
Date: February 20, 2008 4:18:52 PM EST

1:08-cv-10131-LTS SHELBY AMERICAN AUTOMOBILE CLUB, INC. v. CARROLL SHELBY
LICENSING, INC.

Currently, the docket report for this case is 1 page and there are 4
documents filed in the case that are combined 27 pages.

PACER is available to the public. We are not aware of other online
services that allow access to federal cases.

You will be able to access the case once you have a PACER login and
password.


Thank you,
PACER Service Center

For Frequently Asked Questions: Frequently Asked Questions
For Account Information: https://pacer.psc.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/psclogin.pl

[computerworks]

Originally Posted by Don

I asked the PACER Service Center for additional information and clarification, the reply is included below. Public access is available by registering and the fee with use of a credit card is $ . 08 per page. I have not referenced the documents, but did want to share with everyone there is a method to obtain the US District Court information, which may be the same as referenced earlier by JohnWorthing848 in his Reply

Save your 8 cents a page...the full document is posted on SAACforum.

SAAC vs. CSLI - copy of complaint filing

[Don]

Thanks Ron, looks like I missed the reference to the SAAC posting. Would you know, the PACER Service Center indicates a total of 27 pages and the SAAC link has 10 pages, might there are have been updates that are not included in the SAAC posting ? Or, I did not view the entire SAAC reference.

From the PACER Service Center reply:

"Currently, the docket report for this case is 1 page and there are 4
documents filed in the case that are combined 27 pages ".

[Cobra Venom]

Excaliber. Hoorah! There's a guy with balls! I like that. All you others that fence sit should do your homework. This is a terrible, terrible thing that's going on regarding SAAC; the only company that kept the Shelby name alive for the last 35 years.

* * *

Mod Note: I moved the remaining portion of this post to a safe place per the policies of this site. The poster is certainly free to make his or her points in a more suitable manner. Jamo

[Cobra Venom]

Do your homework. The shark in the tank is the one you defend. The lawsuit between Martin and Shelby, recently made public, may be the only one that you know of. I assure you there are more. Amy is at the center of them all, with Carroll right beside her. He motive is to divide and conquer. Oh, by the way, she won't offen beat a guy down on a public forum but she's no stranger to sending absolutely disgusting emails out in private. I can say that I've personally seen some pretty inflamatory emails that I suggested the receipients to keep for a later date.

[Jamo]

Hmmmm....

This is what we moderators have to deal with, and then folks jump our ass for moderating...

Cobra Venom, you made a couple of mistakes:

1. You accuse us of "defending" Amy.
2. You evidently have some uncontrollable personal anger, which is not what this thread is about.
3. I gave you fair warning and moderated your very first post at this site, which went far beyond the policies of this site.
4. You posted a continuation of your personal attack elsewhere on an unrelated thread..after you were moderated.
5. You have chosen to make it personal with a moderator...we don't have the time for personal relationships.


This is not going to be your bully pulpit for personally attacking anyone. Again, you are invited to talk about the issues in a calmer manner, and be a part of the thread. Continue on your course, and you will be shown the door.

Fair warning has been given...

...and no more warnings will be extended.



And BTW, for any that wonder...I am NOT a member of SAAC, nor am I a member of Team Shelby. I own a Kirkham, and I really don't give a sh!t about the dispute one freeking way or another other than dealing with the complete and utter bullsh!t I've heard from both sides and having to read assinine comments from talking heads who think they know something about the legal system. I've had more run ins with former presidents of Shelby than any of you recent members (last 3 years) can imagine, and chose to go with Kirkham despite being quite able to go with Shelby purely because I didn't like the way Shelby was being run. I also didn't have alot of good feelings for SAAC given their past treatment of replica-owners and seemingly being in lockstep with Shelby until they themselves got b!tched slapped. [Yes, replica owners could attend and run at SAAC events (I've done so in the past), but that misses the point...even 4000 owners were treated as forgotten cousins] I see them trying to reach out now...web site, etc., but it is being done with a hand out, so the credibility factor is questionable as far as I'm concerned.

I also don't drink the kool-aid that either or both SAAC and Shelby created this hobby and therefore I should be grateful to one or the other for being able to drive my Kirkham and lay down my rug and point my head towards Vegas or back east as I offer thanks several times a day. Bullsh!t...they both should be kissing our collective feet/asses for buying and building our cars.

Now that's my opinion, and we are all entitled to one. My point is to make it assolutely clear that no side is being taken when we moderate on this subject.

Both camps have their attack dogs out and about...we don't mind some growling, but the ball biting ain't gonna happen on these pages.

[RodKnock]

Not that Jamo needs any affirmation of his opinion and thoughts, but I believe he has it exactly right. Harumph! (Mel Brooks "The Gov" character from Blazing Saddles).

[Naumoff]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Not that Jamo needs any affirmation of his opinion and thoughts, but I believe he has it exactly right. Harumph! (Mel Brooks "The Gov" character from Blazing Saddles).

Feet Kisser.

me too. Jamo that was great!

[JWheaton]

I agree...JAMO's best moderation to date.


Also agree that no one should be biting at Amy's ba@@'s or anyone else's

[Cobra Venom]

JAMO, my apologies for not abiding by the policies herein. Though I don't know where you read in my post that I accused moderators of choosing sides. That couldn't be further from the truth. I merely made a general statement to those who've praised Ms. Boylan for "hanging in there", or "remaining true to her cause", or "enduring this whole ordeal". Unless you're one of those that praised her, you weren't being addressed so you can rest easy. You see, Ms. Boylan IS the decision maker at Shelby. It's not the "licensing department" that's made this decision. It's Amy Boylan. I feel that SAAC are not the only ones to have a bright red target painted on their backs. Cross her and sure as the day is long, she'll be a comin' for you, guns blazing. It's a religious war of sorts. [Redacted inappropriate content] It doesn't take a genius to know that something is seriously wrong here. Sure, there's always the other side of the story but I wonder what a story like that would sound like. I defy anyone to dream up a story that would sound logical enough [Redacted inappropriate content]. In my wildest peyote induced dreams I couldn't come up with a logical, or legal reason Shelby would take a man's money, (a sh*tload) a year and half ago and not deliver what was contractually agreed upon. Wait, one story comes to mind. (See Automotive Weekly quote by Amy Boylan, "Shelby took 170 $10K deposits for cars he knew he couldn't deliver). JAMO, I've got no uncontrollable anger toward Amy Boylan or Carroll Shelby. Oh no! I'm livid with the people who supress the truth to avoid confrontation. Forums should be a means to openly discuss the issues that can't be resolved single-handedly. If I can't answer a question here, I'm positive someone else can. That's the luxury of this whole thing. I agree random name calling should be moderated but don't kill the messenger or lop of his horses legs to prevent his hailing or getting information disseminated (dis·sem·i·nate /dɪˈsɛməˌneɪt/ –verb (used with object), -nat·ed, -nat·ing. to scatter or spread widely, as though sowing seed; promulgate extensively; broadcast; disperse: to disseminate information about preventive medicine.) Again, I'm not angry at any Shelby employees. Just like I wasn't mad at the last trial I testfied in which resulted in a large company was forced to pay out over $22 million in damages for exactly the same thing. People, if you were wronged by Shelby, speak out. That goes for the one that were done a great dead by Shelby, speak out. Let's see which way the scales tip. Thanks for the opportunity to voice my opinion.

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by Cobra Venom

Do your homework. The shark in the tank is the one you defend. The lawsuit between Martin and Shelby, recently made public, may be the only one that you know of. I assure you there are more. Amy is at the center of them all, with Carroll right beside her. He motive is to divide and conquer. Oh, by the way, she won't offen beat a guy down on a public forum but she's no stranger to sending absolutely disgusting emails out in private. I can say that I've personally seen some pretty inflamatory emails that I suggested the receipients to keep for a later date.

Cobra Venom

First, note the highlighted portion of YOUR post responding to ME. I'm a pretty good reader...and I read that exactly as it was posted.

Second...the stuff I had to move from your first post was full of anger...again, as it appeared on its face.

I'm also reading a bit of slightly subtle digs at being moderated equating with hiding the truth. I'll presume you didn't mean to say that, or I would've hit the button on you already and not bothered with this post.

Now, I appreciate your latest comments, and your opinion is certainly welcome here. However, we have closed other threads dealing with specific lawsuits between customers and manufacturers...and certainly not just Shelby. The reason for that policy has been past attempts of one party or the other trying to drag CC into the suits. This is a private site, and we're not going to let that happen. So, I'm specifically advising you not to discuss the specific lawsuit you mentioned, or others.

It happens often that a new member feels it is his or her perogative to come on here and immediately instruct the administration of this site as to what this Forum is for and how it should be run. Sometimes, we are even advised about the First Amendment, or we are provided with definitions from the dictionary. What we would prefer is that instead of engaging in providing advice, new members instead take the time to review the policies of this Forum, including the stickys on the top of the All Cobra Talk main page...and then abide by those policies. This site has been around for a long time and through a great deal of controversey over the years...it continues to be a place for everyone to enjoy because we have a few guidelines which thousands of folks here have generally found to be a good compromise.

And yes, as a matter of fact...we do indeed shoot messengers around here if they don't abide by the policies. The horses go free.

Now, I've redacted some portions of your newest post in conformity with the explanations I just gave. Doing so takes up my time...I don't like my time being taken up.

I get the feeling you're starting to understand the tone of this place, so carry on. I will be close by just in case you need some further direction...it's a service we provide.

[VE4MM]

The truth of the matters will eventually come out in court, for each of the individual cases against Shelby et al.

Then we can sleep at night.

Now everyone, please take a deep breath.

Michael Mark, BScEE, P.Eng.