Roush Crate Engines

[greg schroeder]

I'm sure there are many great engines out there.

I have a Roush 427R with a little over 10,000 miles now. It was an easy break in period for about 1000 miles. I take particular care to keep the oil changed every 500 to 1000 miles, run the proper fuel and always warm engine with easy driving until oil thins down before any type of spirited driving. It might sound like overkill, but I think it makes for a long lasting investment that way and is probably a little better performing engine too. I also took time to have the carb tuned properly for the air in my area. It hammers and I'd do it again with Roush. Most my driving is around town for a cruise, but it definitely is a performer. Thanks Roush

[undy]

Originally Posted by greg schroeder

I'm sure there are many great engines out there.

I have a Roush 427R with a little over 10,000 miles now. It was an easy break in period for about 1000 miles. I take particular care to keep the oil changed every 500 to 1000 miles, run the proper fuel and always warm engine with easy driving until oil thins down before any type of spirited driving. It might sound like overkill, but I think it makes for a long lasting investment that way and is probably a little better performing engine too. I also took time to have the carb tuned properly for the air in my area. It hammers and I'd do it again with Roush. Most my driving is around town for a cruise, but it definitely is a performer. Thanks Roush

It's not overkill at all .. high oil pressure on a cold engine equates to a reduced oil flow, due (mostly) to increased viscosity. I never exceed 3000 rpm, and it's a very light pedal to get there too, until my oil hits 120 deg in my Z06. It's 140 deg for WOT.. In fact, I just installed an oil temp gauge in the Cobra for the same reason. The Pond 482 would be more expensive to replace then the Z06's LS7.. It's not only the reduced oil flow issue too. It's also that the engine clearances haven't reached "spec" yet too. This becomes even more important w/an "all aluminum" motor. I think you're spot-on with your precautions.

Dave

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Manowar

trs,
I would remind you that we are a sponsor and builder "who advertises regularly on this site".
Nor does our Warranty "suck".

It's obvious that you'll spend money on advertising for more business, but won't spend the money to "fix" what appears to be your problem.

Typical big business attitude.

Originally Posted by Manowar

John,

I came here in 2005. Things are way different now and all those personnel are gone from 2001-except for Bill himself. Little did he realize that a hard-a$$ed decision he made in 2001-2004 would come back to bite him in 2008.
I can tell you that competition and the web has brought about vast changes here over the years and in his thinking. He knows the value of customer service and the power of the web.
For the record: a systematic QC system is in place which gives the builders finite and uniform procedures to follow. So all engines spec correctly whether the builder is a 5 year or 20 year-experience guy. None of the 'yeah but I do it this way' stuff-they all do it the same way. All blocks are honed, decked, align honed, deburred and prepped uniformly.
No more exploding distributors-they're either MSD Ready to Run billets or E-Curves.
At the dyno, every engine is compression-tested, leaked-down and compression-ratio checked. Dyno operators can see any 'smokers' immediately. It will never get out of here. Our hone procedures work very well with our Total Seal rings. ALL rings are gapped between .018-.022". I have no explaination for .058 other than the hone was possibly too aggressive causing immediate and high ring wear which would spread the gap real quick. .

A system like you said is good to have, but it doesn't mean anything if it's not folowed. I'm sure you had some type of system in place when his engine was built as well.


Whenever you buy a crate engine from these "massed produced" racing engines, you don;t know who is really machining/assembling your engine. They are in the business to sell volumes of engines, assembling them as cheaply as possible to make a profit. The assembler could be a guy with 6 mos experience, or a 20 yr veteren, maybe not the latter because his salary may be too high.

There are too many people out there building engines that really have no idea what they are doing.

I suggest buy the parts you want, and have a local reputable machine shop machine and possibly assemble your enigne. I think you'll be better off in the long run every time.

[trs900]

Back to the subject of Roush engines.. everyone I have encountered that has a Roush engine has nothing but good things to say about them so I would think they must be an excellent choice. I am sure there are many others out there that are just as good if not better but Roush sure has a following.

[trs900]

Man-o-War to show good will why don't you send me a Complete 460 aluminum block engine for evaluation and like I said in a previous post I will pay the shipping and after evalution period which could last for years I will send you payment for engine.. if everything works out I will become your personlized spokesman for free within 30 minutes of receiving engine.

[Manowar]

trs,
In response to your earlier request for warranty information, I will send to you or other interested parties a PDF of our Warranty Form, which has complete terms. Just email your request to me. You will find it is very uniform in terms and language to our largest competitor's warranties.
I'm sorry, we're all out of 'Evaluation' 460's, but appreciate your offer.
A word of caution about becoming our personal spokesman: you should prepare yourself with a cup and helmet based on some of the sentiment expressed here.

[Manowar]

Anthony,
"It's obvious that you'll spend money on advertising for more business, but won't spend the money to "fix" what appears to be your problem.

Typical big business attitude."
You are certainly entitled to your opinion based on your experiences.

"Whenever you buy a crate engine from these "massed produced" racing engines, you don;t know who is really machining/assembling your engine. They are in the business to sell volumes of engines, assembling them as cheaply as possible to make a profit. The assembler could be a guy with 6 mos experience, or a 20 yr veteren, maybe not the latter because his salary may be too high.

There are too many people out there building engines that really have no idea what they are doing."
A visit to our World site homepage will reveal the 5 minute long "Shop Tour Video". There one can see that our facility is the rival of any well-funded NASCAR shop, minus the chassis/body sectors. Three DTS dynos and $1 million worth of machine tools help produce 400 engines per year and thousands of castings. I will remind that these are engines produced from our own castings exclusively. Something only one other aftermarket builder does.
Further, the video will reveal exactly who puts our engines and cylinder heads together and who dyno-tests the finished product. It can be seen that there are no teenagers here.
It is true that a great deal of this occured since the period from 2001 when Mr. Chesnut received a bad product and and short-sighted treatment. But the point is that improvement has been a steady and expensive part of our growth.

"I suggest buy the parts you want, and have a local reputable machine shop machine and possibly assemble your enigne. I think you'll be better off in the long run every time."
This advice is certainly a valid alternative but companys like ours offer complete subassemblies of heads, short blocks or rotating assemblies for any homebuilder as well.

[SoTxButler]

I have read every word of this thread, carefully weighed all the points made and come to the only conclusion that a reputable business should come to...that is, send a truck to pick up that lump on the floor, offer compensation or a new motor, take the motor home and make someone a great "as is" deal based on John's description of how the engine runs...because I believe him....or take it apart, reuse the block and build a motor for the next guy.

This is what I would have done and today, I would be getting calls for motors based on how well this customer was treated, albeit a little late, but nevertheless...treated right.

Russ

[jhv48]

Granted this post is a few years later, not sure who revived it, but I agree with the last post.

The vendor has all but admitted that the events in question could have taken place during a previous administration and that all the internal problems have been remedied.

EXCEPT ONE! He has offered nothing toward solving the claimants' problem.

Good business and ethics dictate "FIX THE PROBLEM".

I'm sure the two of you can reach some equitable solution. Do it and let us know what it is.

The bad press is costing you much more than any fix will, and your company is now, NOT in the running!

I am considering replacing my small block with a new 427, that's how I found this thread. Money will not be the deciding factor.

Reputation of the engine builder WILL!

[undy]

A great engine is a wonderful thing.. A great engine backed by great customer service is even better. My next engine will be bought from a company that excels in both..

Dave

[madmaxx]

An oil pump in a car is a positive displacement gear pump. This means it pumps the same volume of oil regardless of the temperature or pressure. When the temperature is cold, the oil is thicker so the pump discharge pressure is higher but the flowrate is exactly the same as when the engine is warm and the oil pressure is lower. Do not confuse centrifugal style pumps with positive displacement. You get the same oil flow cold as hot.

[john chesnut]

Manowar, I did not make my post expecting to get a response from your company let alone to get compensation. That hope had long past and I was simply stating my experience. I see that this issue is gaining legs and I have a possible way for this to end up as a win for me and for Bill Mitchell.
As you know I own Dragon Motor Cars. My cars have received alot of press in the Kit Car world and are starting to really take off. My new car that I will debut in April and offer as a kit is a Cobra. It has an aluminum backbone chassis, fiberglass/carbon fiber hybrid body and uses C-5 or C-6 Corvette aluminum suspension. The total weight is #1900lbs. I am going to put an aluminum small block engine in it.
I have been invited by Kit Car to have the car track tested in April. This test will result in a full feature article being run in their magazine. I also am running the Car in the One Lap of America race. And I will be showing the car at Carlisle and many other shows through out the year.
I propose that you exchange the 427 Chevy engine that you built for me with one of your new Aluminum block and head small block Ford engines. I paid $9171 with shipping. I don't know what you charge for the Fords but if it's more I will pay the difference.
If you accept, I will report this in Club Cobra, and will report how the engine preformed. It is my intention to post a running report of the One Lap race on the Web. If all goes well during this "test" I will make a great posting for your company and include that with all of my sales literature.
I am willing to give your company another try. Are you? John

[RACER X #99]

That is a generous offer on your part and I hope that World Products takes you up on the deal.It could be a win win for both of your companies.

[trs900]

Excellent way for both of you to come out on top.. let the past be forgotten and on with the new.. I know it may influence my future purschase.

[Chaplin]

Talk about making lemonade out of lemons!

[Manowar]

John,
1. I would ask you to acknowledge here publicly that I contacted you by PM yesterday 2/13, at 5.28PM. Here is the message verbatim:
"John,
Please tell me the the state of disassembly of the engine right now and what is required to make it run correctly again.
I'm on my own with this but may possibly be able to help correct or improve the situation in some small way.
No publicity on the forum.
Chas"
I took this initiative on my own, without management involvement. I attempted to broker a satisfactory settlement without publicity so that you might discontinue (paraphrase) "...telling everyone about our lousy service at every chance", as you told Mitchell. I never wanted you to sing our praises, just preserve the ability for me to tell the forum about the really excellent alternatives we make for the SBF community.
I wish it noted here because the bashing by the court of public opinion of the last four or five posters, who are apparently arbiters of good customer service, were instructing me with their concepts of adequate reparations without knowledge of my initiative. I remained silent all day as I had no private response from you. I was trying to avoid the concept that enough negative pressure would force World to "do the right thing". (See pavulon vs. ERA, 9-07) I attempted to do that, or at least have a dialog about it, without any outside pressures or opinions.
2. I clearly understand your terms and will present them to management. I am not the last word here and any outcome will not have a decision from me.
To be equally clear, 427 Aluminum World Class, #102046A is priced at $13,499 and can be seen here:
BILL MITCHELL
427 Aluminum Hardcore, #102061A is priced at $14,499 and can be seen here:
BILL MITCHELL
Please advise if your terms remain the same.
3. I am willing to present your offer. I can't speak for the outcome.
My original intention, speaking only for myself and not the company, was to investigate to determine if a customer had been truly wronged before many of us even worked here, and see if anything could be done about it, some seven years later.
Respectfully,

[madmaxx]

Enough of this soap, I am actually getting stressed. Sounds like both entities John and Man O war have personal business but for us on the forum to team up against one as opposed to the other will result in one's back being pushed to the wall and the likely outcome is nothing for either party. I hope the best for both of you, life is not fair, if you sell to the public always remember you are only as good as your last job and you both sale to the public. I know it suks but that is life today.

[Got the Bug]

Madmaxx - I agree 100%. If it was me, I would not only lock this puppy up...I would delete it. Pick up the damn phone and talk it out!!

[SPF1061]

and now, back to our originally scheduled programming...

Chris L -
Not to say that there are not other, quite likely, equally good choices, but, regarding the Roush crate motors -
When I blew the Ford Motorsports 392 stroker originally in my car (@ 34,000 mi) I agonized over what to replace it with. I was down to either KC or Roush. My gut and heart were leaning toward KC. Turns out my dealer has a customer back out on a polished Roush 427R that he had ordered and it is sitting in the shop and needs to be moved and .... I wound up with the Roush.
It has far exceeded my expectations. I, like others have said, change the oil every 1500 miles and never run it until it is up to temp....then I FLAIL it! The car starts with one pat on the accelerator - every time. It does not overheat. It has a nasty sounding idle, but is extremely pleasant mannered on the street. It absolutely runs like a scalded dog. ( I am running 11:30s / 125mph on M/T street radials.) I have 13,000 miles on the Roush and have done nothing to it but change the oil and drive the hell out of it. So, again, not to detract from any of the other possibly terrific choices that I do not have personal experience with, but my Roush 427R totally kicks ass. Good luck with whatever you choose. I am sure it will be great!
steve

[john chesnut]

Manowar, I just clicked on at 1230 am on the 15th and saw that you had sent me a private message. This was the first time that I have clicked on and saw that I had a private message. I went to it, read your message and I responded by sending you a very cordial private message. Then I checked the forum and saw your post. All I can say is WOW!