Question @CSX 3303

[4RE KLR]

Is this true?

I do not know if it is true as I have never heard this story before. I did know the car was destroyed and rebuilt. I supose I am confused about which one sold at B-J

Barrett-Jackson Scottsdale 2007 Top 10 - Ultimatecarpage.com forums

[4RE KLR]

HMM I guess I found out the answer myself.

Thanks

[4RE KLR]

Funny

Cosby on Leno's show about the car.

UnCut Video - Now Playing "Shelby Cobra"

[427SnakeSC]

Here is a little more info on 3303. http://www.csx427sc.com/page/page/5602444.htm

[4RE KLR]

Thanks.
Man I like that car.

It's only money

[427SnakeSC]

Originally Posted by 4RE KLR

Thanks.
Man I like that car.

It's only money

You're welcome! Pretty interesting story.

[gt350pilot]

Steve,
I can fill in the some of the details about CSX3033. The car did indeed crash and was "destroyed". The car went off a cliff on HWY 1 in california, killing the driver. The car was then totaled and parted out. Remember though, that in the mid 70's these cars were not worth much and so totaled did not neccesarily indicate that it was truly destroyed. The engine, trans, rear end, and suspension was sold and subsequently used to build a hotrod that went on to win the Oakland roadster show. The chassis and title were purchased by a friend of mine through his business at the time, Cobra Performance (no longer in business). He is a well respected cobra owner and restorer and has owned numerous cobras since 1966.
He sent the mangled chassis to AC cars to have the chassis rebuilt. When he got the chassis back from AC he then sold it. I am not sure of whether it was just a chassis, a roller, or a complete car. The car bounced around a bit and is currently owned by Sir Anthony Bamford. You may know that name if you watch Victory by Design which has used of a ton of his cars for its features. They are listed as his name or under JCB Excavators. The car was restored and for a while was done as a standard 427SC. I believe that he has recently aquired the original engine, suspension, trans etc. that had been used to build the hotrod. The car is now either done or soon to be in the Twin Supercharged configuration from its glory days.

As to Barrett Jackson stating that 3015 was the only one left..... My friend was at the auction at the time and was speaking to Harley Cluxton when it went across the block. It appears that BJ took a little license with that description...

[4RE KLR]

That car has an interesting history for sure.

[427SnakeSC]

Ron, I was looking at the specs and info on CSX 3033 and CSX 3303. They both seem to share a past. CSX 3033 is owned by Sir Anthony Bamford and he also is rumoured to own the infamous Cosby Cobra CSX 3303. I have read that Sir Anthony restored the wrecked 3303, but without the original Twin Paxton Supercharged 427, with a Weber equipped 427, as 3033 is equipped. I have also read that Sir Anthony recently located the original Supercharged 427 from 3303 and has re-installed it in the original chassis. He has also changed the steering wheel from the right to the left. Is it possible that 3033 is the restored Cosby Cobra 3303? Is there a separate history of CSX 3033 and CSX 3303?

[Nedsel]

OK, let's get our numbers and facts straight. Sir Anthony does not own 3033, and never has. The car in question is 3303, which was the second of the Twin-Paxton Cobras, this one built for Bill Cosby. (3015 was the Shelby "Supersnake" sold last year at B-J.) 3303 is a reconstructed car. Gordon Gimbel did not send the mangled chassis to AC Cars; he sold the mangled chassis to Brian Angliss, who was in the process of taking over AC. Brian, in an article published back in '76 in a very early edition of the SAAC magazine, admitted the original chassis was "too badly damaged" to be reused. Hence he built a completely new car, with a new chassis, new bodywork, custom upholstery, etc. It was constructed in right-hand-drive and used a 427 with Webers. Sir Anthony Bamford bought the car and sold it. He repurchased it in '01 and it was only recently that he was able to buy and reinstall the original 427 block and automatic transmission. He had new Paxton units built and the car was returned to left-hand-drive and more original appearance. This is the car that was going to be offered at Russo & Steele last year. One could argue that B-J may have taken license with their description of 3015 as being "the only one left" but as far as being the only original one left, they were correct.

[CobraDan]

3015 sold with B-J for 5M last year and 3303 was to be auctioned by Russo & Steele last year also but they canceled those plans because they wouldn’t have been able to hand over a clear title to the winning bidder of this air car, my question has all this been resolved and will 3303 be auctioned soon in 2008.

[Nedsel]

Dan, we probably should not refer to 3303 as an "air-car" unless it can be shown that the claimed paperwork, i.e. a title or bill of sale, establishing a link between the original 3303 and the new one, did not actually accompany the transfer of the supposed rights to the car. If the legal right to the VIN was acquired and transferred, then the resulting car may be rightfully termed a clone, but it would not be an "air-car." We generally reserve that term for cars which have been built from thin air by someone with no proper claim whatsoever to the VIN.

[CobraDan]

Nedsel,
OK I better understand “air car” but got the terminology from right here at Club Cobra on CSX3303 when it was to hit the auction block right after the 5M Supersnake last year. The question is still the same is 3303 going to be auction off soon or is the paper work still preventing this from taking place.

[Excaliber]

From Wikipedia, concerning the classic delima of the "Ship of Theseus", or on Club Cobra the classic question, "Is it real"?

The ship wherein Theseus and the youth of Athens returned [from Crete] had thirty oars, and was preserved by the Athenians down even to the time of Demetrius Phalereus, for they took away the old planks as they decayed, putting in new and stronger timber in their place, insomuch that this ship became a standing example among the philosophers, for the logical question of things that grow; one side holding that the ship remained the same, and the other contending that it was not the same.

Plutarch thus questions whether the ship would remain the same if it were entirely replaced, piece by piece. As a corollary, one can question what happens if the replaced parts were used to build a second ship. Which, if either, is the original Ship of Theseus?

[Excaliber]

Keeping the "Spirit" of a car alive is perhaps just as important as the 'car' itself, another example from Wikipedia (I like this one).

I remembered once, in Japan, having been to see the Gold Pavilion Temple in Kyoto and being mildly surprised at quite how well it had weathered the passage of time since it was first built in the fourteenth century. I was told it hadn't weathered well at all, and had in fact been burnt to the ground twice in this century. "So it isn't the original building?" I had asked my Japanese guide. "But yes, of course it is," he insisted, rather surprised at my question. "But it's burnt down?" "Yes." "Twice." "Many times." "And rebuilt." "Of course. It is an important and historic building." "With completely new materials." "But of course. It was burnt down." "So how can it be the same building?" "It is always the same building." I had to admit to myself that this was in fact a perfectly rational point of view, it merely started from an unexpected premise. The idea of the building, the intention of it, its design, are all immutable and are the essence of the building. The intention of the original builders is what survives. The wood of which the design is constructed decays and is replaced when necessary. To be overly concerned with the original materials, which are merely sentimental souvenirs of the past, is to fail to see the living building itself.

I have rather fond memories of my time in Kyoto and my visit to this temple, I'm glad they rebuilt it!
Ernie

[Ron61]

Ernie,

Your ship story is an interesting concept. If they eventually replaced every board and piece of the original, would it still be considered as the original ship or an exact replacement. Notice I avoided the dreaded word Replica because they did this as the ship deteriorated.

I went aboard the battleship Missouri once to look at it and was really kind of over whelmed at the size and hugeness of the guns and everything. The old wooden flight deck had been replaces with steel and the only wood left on the deck was the spot where they signed the surrender papers in Japan. Also the missile launchers had been added, but I would still consider it the original ship even though it was updated. Kind of along the lines of an original Cobra that has been upgraded with newer stuff but kept most of the car original.

Ron

[Excaliber]

I came across this while reading about Boyd Coddington's death. He was convicted of fraud by "Ship of Theseus" according to law. A rebuilt car (boat?) should not be confused with an 'air car' (boat), there are legal consequences.

[4RE KLR]

This gets more interesting everyday.

I tried to post a picture but could not make it work. There is a picture of 3303 in its presnt condition (I think) on the first page. I love that picture but could not post it in the thread.

Oh well. I have learned so much about that car. It is still my favorite of all the CSX's. I know CS's car is the same, but it isn't really the same.