Comp Cams Lies to Better Business Bureau

[FFRCobraMike]

I really can not say anything about the end play on the cam. The same builder put it in both times and it is working fine now. It does have a HV oil pump and still does. The only difference between the two builds is the dizzy gear used. everything else was done exactly the same by the same person. At the time of the first build, the poly gears were not available yet. They were available when the engine was repaired, and i asked both the builder and Comp if that is what should be used and neither at the time recommended it. The builder because it was so new and he had little experience with the plastic gear, and Comp just wouldn't commit after the first failure. I know that regular hyd. roller cams use a steel gear with no problem. However this is a "Retro Fit" roller cam and for some reason, they are different. As I have mentioned before, there is even a difference in the Comp Cams catalog. The regular roller cams have a note beside the listing specifying a steel dizzy gear. The Retro Fit rollers do not have this note. So even in the Comp Cams own catalog, there is a discrepency between the two types of roller cams. The only parts i installed were the dizzy, the carb and the alternator. The rest of the engine was built by the builder. And to clarify about him recommending a cast gear, that was only on the engines that were built with the same cam as mine. He of course does not recommend a cast gear for all applications. He has built over a dozen engines that have the exact same components as mine. I was only saying he recommended a cast gear in those applications. And again all the other engines that are exactly like mine have not had a problem using a cast gear. Oh and Comp told the BBB that the cam is not what wore out. They told them the dizzy gear failed and the cam is fine. I think you can clearly see from the pic that was a lie.

Hope that clarifies things

Mike

[RICK LAKE]

FFRCobraMike Thanks for the info. I guess a bronze gears was a safe bet. IMO If there is an alignment problem the steel gear on the cam eats this gear up quick. The shavings will still endup in the motor on the way to the oil pan. If lucky, the filter catches the particles. I would have thought that Comp would have a recomended gear for each application. Someone said they should sell the correct gear with the retro kit. I have only run the car twice last year so I am not 100% sure that the composite gears is going to work. I do have extra oil going to this location to lube the contact spot of the two gears. This doesn't help you. Hope everything is OK with the motor now. The BBB is a waste of time and tax payers money. They don't do anything here in NJ except get paided. Fly by night construction companies with 3-4 different names. All they need is a PO box and answering machine. NJ is finally maken changes and forcing them to register with the state. Only the Illegals are complaining about this. Go Figure. Rick L.

[Silverback51]

Just did a quick search on the Comp Cams site to see if they refer to the cam material and hardness in their spec pages. Could not find anything.

By the picture it's easy to see that it's a billet material cam. Did any of the information they sent with the cam include the material specs?

It would be real interesting to have the hardness tested. I would do it on the shaft area between the distributor gear and the first cam lobe. Then I would test it on the cam lobe surface also.

It could be a heat treat issue. If so, it would not have mattered what gear was used, it would fail regardless.

[AC Cobra]

If I can come to Mike’s defense here. Back in 2006 I had a similar problem with my CompCam billet steel cam (Hydraulic Roller 35-426-8) in my 351W.

Out for a drive one sunny day and it stopped running. Had it towed home and discovered the cam gear was striped. I discussed the problem with my engine builder. He called CompCam and discussed the problem with them. He told me to remove the cam and give it to him. He sent it to CompCam and they replaced the cam with the comment that they had received a bad batch of cores from China.

CompCam highly recommended that I use the “Carbon Untra-Poly Composite” distributor gear that CompCam had just introduced. They sent it along with the replacement cam. The cost for the distributor gear was $115.69.

I was really shocked that CompCam would replace a “race part”. However, my engine builder said they were replacing it because of the bad batch of cores that they grind the cams from. Of course, he buys several hundred cams from them each year. That may have been the real leverage.

To Mike, I would recommend talking to CompCam about which batch your cam came from. It may be the same batch my cam came from. In that case you may get some satisfaction. Also, the Carbon Untra-Poly Composite distributor gear solves all the questions about which distributor gear, steel or bronze, to use.

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by Silverback51

A roller cam should have either a steel gear or a bronze gear. A cast gear will wear out in no time.

I have a roller cam in mine and a steel gear on the distributor. No issues with this combo. However I will be changing to a bronze gear when I but in the new distributor.

Is it possible that the steel gear was installed wrong on your distributor? Generally the steel and bronze gears do not have the roll pin hole drilled. If I remember right, the tolerance for locating this to the distributor shaft is .010. That is close and needs to be checked after installation.

I went through this same discussion on the last thread. Turns out Mike is right... the came he got IS roller and IS NOT steel. I don't know how they do it, but they are making some of those retro cams in another metal.

[rattlesnakepete]

AC,

I have the same cam you mentioned. Mine was made in either 2005 or 2006. I have been keeping an eye on the cam and distributor gear and so far so good. I have about 1200 miles on it mostly at the track.

How long did yours last until it stripped?

I wonder if I can check the production number on the cam and see if it was from the bad batch?

I am not sure if comp cams would fess up to any of this unless I have a failure.

[Jamo]

Rick Lake and I have explored the cam/distributor gear issue over the past five years ad nauseum on FEs.

Basic Rule: The distributor gear is always supposed to be the sacrificial lamb. It is always supposed to be of the same, or preferably, softer material than the cam...for obvious reasons.

Cam mfgs didn't always make the same stuff available for every application. There is still a bit of an issue with FEs for solid roller cams because they are only recently starting to press on stronger gears onto the cams. Bronze, or the more recent poly gears, were the only things you could use, though there have been a few (very few) stories of folks getting by with steel gears. I have several bronze gears on the shelf behind me as I type that are either broken, worn down or sharpened to where they could cut a gnat's short hairs lengthwise. I always carried a Buckley Emergency Distributor Gear Kit with me consisting of (1) bronze gear pre-drilled for a Chevy-sized pin, (2) a tube of lube (KY or anal lube might suffice) and (1) handy dandy little gear puller. Used it several times, most notably at 8,000 feet in the Sierras. I switched back to a non-roller flat tappet several years ago.

Keith (KC) discovered better luck using hyd rollers for FEs because they could use steel gears, and has been building big HP with them without the distributor gear problems.

Rick's being the good guy running the poly gear so we get some empirical evidence back on its usage.

What gets me about Mike's problem is that Mfgs have been making the stronger pressed-on cam gear setups for SBC, SBF BBC, 429/460s and Mopars for years (FEs being the basturd child left in the cold for a lengthy period), so the distributor gear-cam matchup should have been a no-brainer for Comp Cams. I cannot imagine anyone ever advising a cast iron gear for any kind of roller (just doesn't make sense to me...but hey...if it works), and any steel matchup better be deadon with the materials used for the cam gear...or they should recommend bronze or the new poly.

Mike, there is a thing called res ipsa loquitor that is used in med mal cases when somebody wakes up after an operation and finds out a sponge has been left in their belly. You sue everyone that was in the operating room and basically throw the burden at the collective group, akin to saying "one of you basturds did this...you figure it out!"

While it may be that the cam gear material was bad...it sounds more likely (and a simplier arguement to make) that the advised matchup for the distributor gear was wrong.

Hope you get some answers (and money). There is simply no reason why this crap can't be standardized and, as suggested, a cam gear can't be provided with each cam based upon the customer's spec of the distributor to be used.

[AC Cobra]

Originally Posted by rattlesnakepete

AC,

I have the same cam you mentioned. Mine was made in either 2005 or 2006. I have been keeping an eye on the cam and distributor gear and so far so good. I have about 1200 miles on it mostly at the track.

How long did yours last until it stripped?

I wonder if I can check the production number on the cam and see if it was from the bad batch?

I am not sure if comp cams would fess up to any of this unless I have a failure.

The original CompCams 35-426-8 had a serial number of UE0920. If you have anything close I would call and talk to CompCams.

My original cam lasted about 3 years before it failed. I was using a steel gear on the MSD distributor.