New Keith Craft Engine

[Greg Curtis]

After spending numerous hours on KC's website I have it narrowed down to 2 engines. Either the 514 ci 600hp engine or the Pond 482 FE. Theres a $6000 price difference between the 2 and need some opinions on why the 482 is so much better than the 514 besides it being an aluminum block. Money isn't a problem. Quality and reliability are of the utmost concern for me.

[blykins]

For authenticity sake, the FE would be the winner. However, for power, and the ability to uncork an unreal amount of power for the future, the 514 would win hands down.

[vector1]

i think quality and reliability would be similiar--both good. i'd go with aluminum in whichever version was cheaper and use the saved money for fuel injection.

[BDHE]

Originally Posted by blykins

For authenticity sake, the FE would be the winner. However, for power, and the ability to uncork an unreal amount of power for the future, the 514 would win hands down.

I would fully agree with this comment. From a bang-for-the-buck standpoint, you can't beat a stroked 385 series motor. My research indicates that a 385 series can be built to deliver impressive HP and torque numbers without being out on the ragged mechanical edge. An FE will typically deliver comparatively lower numbers while costing more.

If you're wanting to field the most authentic cobra you can and still get impressive horsepower and torque, then a stroked aluminum FE from someone like Kieth is the way to go. Assuming, of course, the additional $6000 isn't a show stopper for you.

Our cars are traction limited -- typical cobra power-to-weight ratios are just too high (it makes me smile just to type that). Theories point to the fact that we won't be able to efficiently hook-up anything past 400 HP from a standing start, anyway. Of course, in the road race environment that is the natural habitat for cobras, high numbers become useful again. I'm as guilty as anyone else with regard to wanting a dyno sheet to brag about; but having an aluminum FE from Kieth is something to brag about in itself.

Bottom line -- make your choice based on what you see as the "perfect cobra". There is no "wrong" choice here.

Bryon

[767Jockey]

Originally Posted by BDHE

I would fully agree with this comment. From a bang-for-the-buck standpoint, you can't beat a stroked 385 series motor. My research indicates that a 385 series can be built to deliver impressive HP and torque numbers without being out on the ragged mechanical edge. An FE will typically deliver comparatively lower numbers while costing more.

If you're wanting to field the most authentic cobra you can and still get impressive horsepower and torque, then a stroked aluminum FE from someone like Kieth is the way to go. Assuming, of course, the additional $6000 isn't a show stopper for you.

Our cars are traction limited -- typical cobra power-to-weight ratios are just too high (it makes me smile just to type that). Theories point to the fact that we won't be able to efficiently hook-up anything past 400 HP from a standing start, anyway. Of course, in the road race environment that is the natural habitat for cobras, high numbers become useful again. I'm as guilty as anyone else with regard to wanting a dyno sheet to brag about; but having an aluminum FE from Kieth is something to brag about in itself.

Bottom line -- make your choice based on what you see as the "perfect cobra". There is no "wrong" choice here.

Bryon

To take what Byron says a step further, you get to the point where more power really is just meaningless. The cars just become traction limited. What's left is handling. You make the traction problem worse by putting more weight in the front of the car. For me, I'd take a slight loss in power potential with the aluminum FE, and have less weight in the front for better handling. You may actually go faster with less power in this situation due to weight distribution and it's effect on traction and handling.

As far as the additional cost for the FE, I would guess that he value of the car with the FE over the 385 would probably account for some if not all of the additional cost. When you look at the value of a Cobra, as a general rule they retain their value as a result of the originality. Most Cobras at the high end of the price scale are usually the most original looking ones. Again, not a hard and fast rule, but as a general trend I think that's a fairly correct statement. You can rarely go wrong with an FE in a Cobra.

The 385 series engines are AWESOME engines, and there is nothing wrong with them. Personally I like them a lot. There is no question that you can make more power, more reliably and cheaper with a 385 than a FE. It's hard to argue, however that a large heavy cast iron 385 is a better engine for a Cobra than an aluminum FE. A better engine? perhaps. A better engine for a Cobra? Personally I don't think so. Your thoughts may vary.
Doug

[Jerry Clayton]

Of course then there is the thought of more front weight to keep the front down at high speeds and possibly use the 6k on brakes

[BDHE]

Originally Posted by 767Jockey

To take what Bryon says a step further, you get to the point where more power really is just meaningless. The cars just become traction limited. What's left is handling. You make the traction problem worse by putting more weight in the front of the car. For me, I'd take a slight loss in power potential with the aluminum FE, and have less weight in the front for better handling. You may actually go faster with less power in this situation due to weight distribution and it's effect on traction and handling.

As far as the additional cost for the FE, I would guess that he value of the car with the FE over the 385 would probably account for some if not all of the additional cost. When you look at the value of a Cobra, as a general rule they retain their value as a result of the originality. Most Cobras at the high end of the price scale are usually the most original looking ones. Again, not a hard and fast rule, but as a general trend I think that's a fairly correct statement. You can rarely go wrong with an FE in a Cobra.

The 385 series engines are AWESOME engines, and there is nothing wrong with them. Personally I like them a lot. There is no question that you can make more power, more reliably and cheaper with a 385 than a FE. It's hard to argue, however that a large heavy cast iron 385 is a better engine for a Cobra than an aluminum FE. A better engine? perhaps. A better engine for a Cobra? Personally I don't think so. Your thoughts may vary.
Doug

I'd have to agree with Doug. End value will be increased, offsetting the higher initial cost. Weight of an aluminum FE would probably be comparable to an iron small block -- definitely improving handling. Power to weight ratios with the aluminum FE (with the impressive HP/Tourque numbers produced by a stroked Keith motor) will still be blow-your-socks-off good.

Bryon

[ENTDOC]

FE all the way. A 385 series is the poorest choice for a cobra to me. Heavy, wide, not authentic. I would definitly go with a stroked windsor before that motor, but the FE is the best choice.

[undy]

FE over a 385.... for all the reasons stated above.

Dave

[1985 CCX]

And yet another opinion:

I would choose a 427 SO set up as close to original spec as possible. (except using aluminum heads) If you are in the price is not an object catagory, have KC make an original spec SO for your car.
1) FE is a great looking plant
2) Original spec does have less power = heat, wear, and the car only weighs 2300lbs + anyway.
3) Every stop at a gas station will bring "Is that a real 427 under the hood" and the answer would be easy = Yes.
4) If you are going to race maybe use a Yates SB, lighter and more power.
5) A wise friend once told me, today's replicas are faster than original cars, stop better than original cars, and can be overpowered for street use. BTW: He owns an original car, yes it is enough for the street or track use.

[RodKnock]

Ditto on the FE. Think about resale value too.

[Archrms]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Ditto on the FE. Think about resale value too.

I agree, and vote for the FE. If you have an FE under the hood, you need no explanation for your choice of engine. It can do nothing but improve the value of your car.

[bret a ewing]

Greg,

Keith builds a "standard" 482 al Shelby block/edelb. heads with hydraulic roller cam, comp. ratio @ 10.5:1, idles at 850, runs cool (with 2 pushers and one puller) and dyno's about 650hp. ~20K. Just a suggestion.

[Clois Harlan]

FE because it is just right and spend what ever difference on much better brakes.

Go with 17" wheels too! Bigger better brakes and better tire choices.

Clois

[Excaliber]

Besides the 385 series motor just 'looks funny' under the hood of a Cobra, it just aint right.

FE for me.

[Ronbo]

Well, there is another choice in an aluminum ford big block...

C and C MotorSports

Shelby now offers a 351 aluminum block as well... (if a "medium" block will due)

The FE will produce quite a lot of power, but it's a wierd design that Ford was about 10yrs late in updating. (lack of quench heads and a weak bottom end)

But like everyone has said even 600hp (very do-able for the FE) is a challange to keep between the ditches.

I like Cosby's description in that video from the tonight show "the cops ran away from us!"

[Excaliber]

Quench for the FE is not so much a factor of the heads as it is the specs for the piston being so low in the cylinder at TDC. As much as .030 below deck. I utilized custom pistons for my FE build which moved the piston up to zero deck height via the piston pin location, thus gaining some nice 'quench'. That allows you to run slightly higher compression ratio's and the engine is less susceptible to detonation. It's working out rather nicely for me, I've never had detonation even under a fierce load condition (low rpm, high gear, lugging the engine).

[jwoodard]

Fe is the only way and Keith will build you a terrific engine!

[csx wnab]

427 all the way. bottom line..................pond. nuff said.

[Greg Curtis]

Now I really need to do some heavy thinking with all the opinions from you guys. I like the look of the FE but the parts availability and ease of making power cheaper is a strong point for the 385. Yeah, like I said , this is going to take some heavy thinking. Thanks guys for all your suggestions!