Continuation CSX a "Kit car"?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

My favorite car of all time . I've owned several and still have a 78 Mach 1.

I tried to find a shot of the blue and white motif that came from the factory with fake side pipes, but couldn't locate one. I'll go out on a limb and say that was the lowest stoop in the history of "Cobras."

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by patrickt

I tried to find a shot of the blue and white motif that came from the factory with fake side pipes, but couldn't locate one. I'll go out on a limb and say that was the lowest stoop in the history of "Cobras."

You couldn't find one because there's no such thing .

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

You couldn't find one because there's no such thing .

Hmm, maybe that's why I can't find a shot of it. But the thing is, I remember it clearly. That doesn't necessarily mean it occurred though, I suppose.

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Hmm, maybe that's why I can't find a shot of it. But the thing is, I remember it clearly. That doesn't necessarily mean it occurred though, I suppose.

Well, it WAS the 70s. Definitely could have been added by the owner a day after buying the car, or you could have just been trippin'.

[Naumoff]

My point was to associate the Cobra name with the Mustang longer than the Shelby AC Cobra from the 60s.
The Mustang was labeled a Cobra with the little Mustang II.
But so it goes.

I am looking forward to running my little MG(wink,wink,nudge,nudge) up to
The Cobra Revolution this Saturday.



I was invited to run my car at MIR a couple of weekends ago with the Mid Atlantic Cobra Owners Association (MACA) and guess what? They were all Mustang Cobras.
The guy that took the video of my car down the 1/4 mile and sent it to me labeled it "Old School Cobra"

So I think I am going to say I have an old school Cobra replica from now on.

[Joe Wicked]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

As for the big cars, the Torino was like the 68 Mustang, in that you could order a Cobra Jet motor when they came out. But the actual Torino COBRA came out in 1970, with the introduction of the 429CJ and 429SCJ motors.
I do not believe any other Fords wore the Cobra name back then (but I could be wrong).

Limited production run (specifically for Nascar to be able to use them) 1969 Ford Cobra. It is the Torino body, and the next year they called them Torino Cobras, but the 69 was just Ford Cobra. I never knew they existed until late last year/early this year. Ron61 from here has one. As far as I know, it is the oldest Ford using it.

[Joe Wicked]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Nothing compares to the power and beauty of the 1975 Cobra II.

My cousin has a blue with white stripes 76 sitting rusting in my uncles back yard. It is parked right in front of an 85 4 eye GT He swears he is going to finish them one day, but they are both in worse shape now than when he bought them. The 4 eye was done, only needing exhaust put on and it has now sat for over 10 years and the drivers window was broken by debris tossed around in a storm many years ago. Now it is a home to field mice and other rodents. The 76, is worse.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Joe Wicked

My cousin has a blue with white stripes 76 sitting rusting in my uncles back yard. It is parked right in front of an 85 4 eye GT He swears he is going to finish them one day, but they are both in worse shape now than when he bought them. The 4 eye was done, only needing exhaust put on and it has now sat for over 10 years and the drivers window was broken by debris tossed around in a storm many years ago. Now it is a home to field mice and other rodents. The 76, is worse.

Uhhh, did any of them have fake side pipes by any chance?

[David Kirkham]

Joe,

That reminds me of 1965 GT Mustang that has been parked (never moved) at a house by our shop since at least 1987. I drive by it every day. One day it will be nothing more than a pile of Fe2O3.

Sad to watch it die a slow death.

David

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

Sad to watch it die a slow death.

Kind of like this thread....

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by ANB

Any opinions? Is the continuation CSX 4000 a Kit Car or "replica"? Body a Shelby and engine installs elsewhere. Other body parts?

In the true sense of the definition was the original considered a Kit car? AC Bristol body, Ford engine and Jaguar brakes or suspension.

According to way I have seen the law written in several states (and hopefully my understanding is correct), ALL of our wonderful rides are defined as "Kit Cars" or "Specially Constructed Vehicles" Kirkham, Shelby, FFR, ERA, Superformance, the tax man and the state consider them all the same.

Ultimately, it really doesn't matter what we banter about here on the site. The state where you register your Chariot of Fire is--by definition--going to tell you what it is.

David

[Chaplin]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Uhhh, did any of them have fake side pipes by any chance?

Patrick-
I too recall seeing side pipes on that car when I was a kid. The one in my neighborhood was white w/ blue stripes.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

According to way I have seen the law written in several states (and hopefully my understanding is correct), ALL of our wonderful rides are defined as "Kit Cars" or "Specially Constructed Vehicles" Kirkham, Shelby, FFR, ERA, Superformance, the tax man and the state consider them all the same.

Ultimately, it really doesn't matter what we banter about here on the site. The state where you register your Chariot of Fire is--by definition--going to tell you what it is.

David

There goes the THE MAN keeping me down again. I don't want THE MAN telling me what my Kirkham is, or for that matter Evan either.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Chaplin

Patrick-
I too recall seeing side pipes on that car when I was a kid. The one in my neighborhood was white w/ blue stripes.

Yay!! I'm cancelling my pre-dementia screening checkup. The reason I remember it so well was because at the time I was struck with how stupid it was to put fake side pipes on a car.

[Power Surge]

Trust me, no Mustang II EVER left Ford with sidepipes... fake or not.

[Naumoff]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Yay!! I'm cancelling my pre-dementia screening checkup. The reason I remember it so well was because at the time I was struck with how stupid it was to put fake side pipes on a car.

Are you sure it wasn't a model kit you saw the side pipes on?

I remember side pipes but I also was building a lot of model cars at the time.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

The Cobra SNAKE emblem was used on some of the 60s Shelby's logo, but the cars were never called Cobras. In 1968 1/2, there was a "Cobra-jet" Mustang, which was designated for the use of the new 428 CJ engine. The Boss 351 used the 351 CJ engine as well, but the car was not called a Cobra. No Mustang wore the Cobra name until 1976.

As for the big cars, the Torino was like the 68 Mustang, in that you could order a Cobra Jet motor when they came out. But the actual Torino COBRA came out in 1970, with the introduction of the 429CJ and 429SCJ motors.

I do not believe any other Fords wore the Cobra name back then (but I could be wrong).

I believe you are wrong. Actually, I believe there were '68 Shelby mustangs registered as "cobra's". In fact, there is I believe a 1968 issue of ?Hot-Rod that compares a '68 427 vette vs a shelby cobra. They are comparing a vette to a '68 GT500 (KR). These cars did have the cobra emblems on them, and I believe were called cobra's as well as shelby mustangs, GT350's/500's.

here it is. Not HotRod, but Motor Trend.



From another site:

"Is There a Correct Name for the Shelby Mustangs; Are They Cobras?
In order to answer this questions I have done some research in the sales and marketing literature for the Shelby Mustangs. The cars are almost always refered to as "Shelby GT350/500". The name "Mustang" does not appear. Early 1965 ads refer to the GT350 as "Shelby G.T.350" (note the periods). The original marketing purpose was to give the impression that this is a race car sold to the public. The name "Cobra" did not appear, probably because it may be thought to cause confusion with the Shelby Cobra roadsters. The marketing line was that the cars were a mixture of a Mustang and Cobra, but neither of the word appear on the name, but both Cobra and Mustang insignia are on the cars. The Ford name and insignia are absent. From 67 on, the cars lose the Mustang badge on the grill (replaced by a Cobra badge) and "Cobra" is added to their name. In addition "SHELBY" appears on the front of the hood. The cars are refered in the literature as the "Shelby Cobra GT's". I prefer to refer to them as "Shelby Mustangs" because they are Mustangs modified and tuned by Shelby. Names are different in context (in the 60s) and now. Everyone that looked at a Shelby Mustang then new it was a Mustang, because it looked like a Mustang and Mustangs were aplenty. Now fastback Mustangs from the 60s are a rare sight and difficult to identify for the casual observer, so the name "Mustang" help this purpose. The "Shelby Cobra GT" is confusing because it looks a lot like "Shelby Cobra 427" and "Shelby GT40", which refer to cars that share only common engines with the Mustang. Nevertheless, what one calls this great cars is a matter of personal preference."



Plymouth came out with the '68 roadrunner - a cheap muscle car. In reaction to this, pontiac came out with the '69 Judge (originally supposed to be a stripped down cheap muscle car), Oldsmobile the W-31, then ralleye 350, and Dodge the superbee, and then Ford the '69 cobra, a stripped down fairlane (fastback or formal roof) with a 428CJ engine. This car was not a torino, which was an appearence package, and the Torino Cobra is a misnomer, as all the cobra's were based really from the fairlane. However, the NASCAR race cars had "Torino Cobra" on the quarter panels which was misleading.

From another site:

1968 Torino Fastback

The Ford Torino was produced by the Ford motor company from 1968/1976. Described as "Ford's newest bright idea" , the all new Torino was created to eventually replace the very popular Fairlane name with an all new brand of Ford beauty, power and style. Although Ford still used the Fairlane name up through 1971, the Torino name was used on most body styles and was designed with all new looks and appeal for a whole new generation of car buyers.

Still a sports sedan, the first Torino was larger in size than the previous year Fairlane and incorporated a whole new roof line in the fastback as well as the new two door hardtop, also called a two door formal roof. The Torino was built from the start with plenty of power and comfort with standard equipment v-8 engines from the small block 302, to the big block 390 and 428 Cobra Jet introduced in 1969. The 1968 Torino was offered in several styles. Available in the two door fastback, two or four door hardtop, station wagon, and two door convertible. The Ranchero pickup also carried the Torino front end design for 1968. Ford used the Fairlane name on the economy version of the Torino. Although a lot of car, these Fairlanes were different than the Torino in molding design, standard options, and interior trim décor. The Torino GT was the upscale Torino in 1968 with standard body decal stripe, styled steel wheels, wide oval sports tires and standard equipment v-8 engine. These were available with optional four speed floor shift. We have yet to see an actual example, but 1968 Torino literature indicates that the Torino was available with the 427 cubic inch Cobra V-8 engine with four barrel carburetor and hydraulic lifters.


1969 Fairlane Cobra

The 1969 Ford Torino carried the same body lines and model designations as in the previous year. Soon to be a racing legend and high performance hall of famer, the all new Fairlane Cobra was introduced in 1969 in addition to the other models. The new Cobra was built for speed with one of the most fierce "showroom stock" performance engines ever built. Available in either the two door hardtop, or fastback roofline, the Fairlane Cobra was fitted with standard equipment 428 four barrel Cobra Jet big block power plant. The new performance Fairlane, boasted 335 horsepower at 440 pounds of torque at 3400 rpm. The carburetor was a healthy 735 cfm. Also standard on the Cobra was floor mounted four speed manual transmission, dual exhaust, beefed up suspension for minimum body roll and factory bucket seats. If this did not get you excited, you could order an optional ram-air option with functional air hood scoop or a "Traction-Lok" differential.


1970 Torino GT fastback

The 1970 and 1971 Ford Torino featured a complete new body style change with all new looks and style. The new lower, wider, and longer Torino was gracefully designed with aerodynamic lines. 1970 saw the introduction of the 351 Cleveland engines in the Torino as well as the new 429 Thunder Jet, Cobra Jet, and Super Cobra Jet engine options. The 429 Cobra Jet was rated at a whopping 360 horsepower right out of the box, with an additional 5 horsepower added when ordered with the "ram air" shaker hood with functional air scoop. Also available on the Torino GT and Cobra was the Hurst four speed manual transmission, rear window louvers or sports slats, ribbon style tachometer, rim blow three spoke steering wheel, high back bucket seats, fifteen inch magnum 500 chrome wheels, And traction-lok differential in the rear. A very notable and popular option on the Torino was the flip style hideaway headlight option. This vacuum operated headlights would open when driving and hideaway in closed position when the car was turned off. The new Torino GT featured a new design reflective body side decal called "laser stripes". These attractive new stripes faded in multiple colors while being light reflecting. These were optional equipment on Torino GT and Ranchero GT.

As you can see, the 1970 and 1971 Torino offered the enthusiast a whole range of choices depending on the buyers interest. And for the family or business executive, the Torino Brougham offered luxurious accommodations with all the good looks of the sport models. The 1970 Torino was so well received that it was voted motor trend magazines car of the year.

[Naumoff]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

Trust me, no Mustang II EVER left Ford with sidepipes... fake or not.

After market side pipes were big in the 70s.
It could have been a Kit.

[REAL 1]

Oy Vey, you guys are ridiculous! You give me such a headache!

Just read the SAAC website and SAAC position SLOOOWWWWLLLY. Concentrate!

Gee guys thanks for the "invite" to the Cobra Revolution. Hey, if you print out the material from SAAC I'll be glad to give any of you guys tutoring lessons on what it means for free. Bring your Crayons.

I guess there'll be about 100 of you at the Revolution and 1 of me (at last count anyway) so it should be about fair.

I'll be in Reading PA Friday and maybe Saturday for the WWII weekend. Lots of WWII aircraft coming and maybe an ME109 from Canada. I'm scheduled to take a flight in a B17 Friday.

What time do the "festivities" begin Saturday?

Maybe I'll show up. You never know.

Cheers.

[Joe Wicked]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Uhhh, did any of them have fake side pipes by any chance?

LOL, nope.