Continuation CSX a "Kit car"?

[mrmustang]

So after 300 posts (this being the 300th) and over 8,000 hits to this thread can we all agree to the following:


CSX4000(6000,7000 etc) series cars are indeed real Shelby products
CSX4000(6000,7000 etc) series cars are not original (as built before 1968) Cobra's but continuations of the original 1960's built Cobras



Bill S.

[jmimac351]

Originally Posted by CSX 4039

Although you are possibly oblivious to this fact, you just became Evan's new poster child regarding blindside flaming of CSX owners.



In contrast, I don't notice too many FFR owners getting flamed for putting "Carroll Shelby Motorcars" license plate frames on their cars, Shelby Cobra emblems on their hoods and trunks, or afixing Shelby Auto, Inc., Venice, CA VIN plates to their cars...

Pay your money, make your choice
Pay $50k, get a finished FFR kit,
Pay $150,000, get a finished authentic CSX roller,
Pay $1,500,000, get an historic orginal CSX manufactured vehicle.
I don't know who you are, and don't presume to know what you tell people about your car, (nor do I give a sh*t).
You don't know a thing about me, nor what I say about my car.
Not that it matters, but my current license plate number is a random number.
With more important issues, like NObama gonna be the next President, inflation gonna go thru the roof, and unemployment gonna skyrocket, who gives a f*ck? Not you, nor I.
Nice thread killer.

Relax Francis. I think CSX cars are awesome. If the shoe I've described fits your foot then so be it.

I met a guy once with a GT40 (among other things) that was pretty awesome. Only later did I come to find out that the car has paperwork that authenticates it as being real. He never offered that tidbit of info although it's certainly noteworthy. He didn't feel like he needed to I guess. I now know that the car and owner are pretty authentic, if you know what I mean.

Enjoy your car and rest assured that no matter what happens we'll be dealing with a liberal.

[Stentor]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

So after 300 posts (this being the 300th) and over 8,000 hits to this thread can we all agree to the following:


CSX4000(6000,7000 etc) series cars are indeed real Shelby products
CSX4000(6000,7000 etc) series cars are not original (as built before 1968) Cobra's but continuations of the original 1960's built Cobras



Bill S.

Bingo...we've got a winner here!

[mrmustang]

Can we agree with the following statement?

"Today's CSX 4000 Series 427 S/C component vehicles from Shelby Automobiles, Inc. are everything the 1965 models were and more. The authenticity of each vehicle is documented by Shelby CSX numbers and a manufacturer's Statement of Origin (MSO) from Shelby American signed by Carroll Shelby himself. Improvements include a stronger steel frame and better alloys used in the components, plus better cooling and additional heat shielding to make these cars safer and more drivable without losing any of their original character."


Bill S.

[Excaliber]

Well I reluctantly agree with that Bill, as long as the statement doesn't apply to the black ones on the east coast...

[fostereast]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

Can we agree with the following statement?

"Today's CSX 4000 Series 427 S/C component vehicles from Shelby Automobiles, Inc. are everything the 1965 models were and more. The authenticity of each vehicle is documented by Shelby CSX numbers and a manufacturer's Statement of Origin (MSO) from Shelby American signed by Carroll Shelby himself. Improvements include a stronger steel frame and better alloys used in the components, plus better cooling and additional heat shielding to make these cars safer and more drivable without losing any of their original character."


Bill S.

This definition works for the kit car crowd (A little to much snake-oil for me though) For the uninformed car show visitor, try something a little simpler like. "It's a replica of the 1960's Cobra. This one happens to be made by a company CS owns. Surprisingly enough CS found that replicas of the original Cobra are much more popular than he ever imagined, and with his background and connection to the industry, it seemed a natural for him to get re-involved in the Cobra legend. So here you have it, a very authentically made replica made by none other than CS himself."

One of the side effects of this statement is that the person you just talked to will go away happy they stopped by.

[A-Snake]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

Can we agree with the following statement?

"Today's CSX 4000 Series 427 S/C component vehicles from Shelby Automobiles,Inc. are everything the 1965 models were and more."
Bill S.

Bill,

The key is "Today's". They are not 1965 Cobras. The description that is given to the uninformed crowd is sometimes missing that element.

[mrmustang]

Of course to follow this up a little further I'll take a section of the actual CSX purchase agreement and post it here as it needs no further clarification as to what SAI itself views these cars as:

"It is expressly understood and agreed that it shall be Purchaser’s or Purchaser’s retail customer’s responsibility to assemble the parts and components of The Shelby Cobra Series Component Vehicle and if any engine and drive-train is installed therein at Purchaser’s or Purchaser’s retail customer’s option, it is not at the request or under the direction of Shelby Automobiles. It is also understood and agreed that it shall be Purchaser or Purchaser’s retail customer’s sole responsibility to direct any independent assembler engaged by Purchaser or Purchaser’s retail customer to complete the final assembly of The Shelby Series Cobra Component Vehicle. It is understood and agreed that Shelby Automobiles is not responsible for any errors, omissions or construction defects of or by the Purchaser, Purchaser’s retail customer or independent assembler."


Bill S.

[LMH]

Bill
Do you have that "Purchase Agreement" because you bought one?
Larry

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by LMH

Bill
Do you have that "Purchase Agreement" because you bought one?
Larry

Nope, found it all online off of their own servers..........


Bill S.

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by fostereast

This definition works for the kit car crowd (A little to much snake-oil for me though) For the uninformed car show visitor, try something a little simpler like. "It's a replica of the 1960's Cobra. This one happens to be made by a company CS owns. Surprisingly enough CS found that replicas of the original Cobra are much more popular than he ever imagined, and with his background and connection to the industry, it seemed a natural for him to get re-involved in the Cobra legend. So here you have it, a very authentically made replica made by none other than CS himself."

One of the side effects of this statement is that the person you just talked to will go away happy they stopped by.

Sorry, a little too much reverse snake-oil for me.

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

Of course to follow this up a little further I'll take a section of the actual CSX purchase agreement and post it here as it needs no further clarification as to what SAI itself views these cars as:

"It is expressly understood and agreed that it shall be Purchaser’s or Purchaser’s retail customer’s responsibility to assemble the parts and components of The Shelby Cobra Series Component Vehicle and if any engine and drive-train is installed therein at Purchaser’s or Purchaser’s retail customer’s option, it is not at the request or under the direction of Shelby Automobiles. It is also understood and agreed that it shall be Purchaser or Purchaser’s retail customer’s sole responsibility to direct any independent assembler engaged by Purchaser or Purchaser’s retail customer to complete the final assembly of The Shelby Series Cobra Component Vehicle. It is understood and agreed that Shelby Automobiles is not responsible for any errors, omissions or construction defects of or by the Purchaser, Purchaser’s retail customer or independent assembler."


Bill S.

I don't think anyone ever disputed that it's a component vehicle (plus we've already covered this). Obviously, for Shelby to sell a Cobra that's the same design as the original cars, it would never meet modern standards as a finished vehicle.

Let us not forget, that original comp and S/Cs were component vehicles too. They rollers were made by AC, and shipped to Shelby, minus drivetrain (and paint). Shelby added the drivetrains, and then sold them as complete cars. But that was the 60s, and the Cobra could be sold back then as a completed car in it's design. Today, to sell the same car, it has to be sold to the public as a component car.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

Today, to sell the same car, it has to be sold to the public as a component car.

Sal,

My point exactly, as what is another name for a "component car" , we all know it's a kit car, whether it is sold as a roller or not. So why is it that most new CSX owners (no, not you) cannot except that as a fact.



Bill S.

[fostereast]

Posted by Power Surge: "Let us not forget, that original comp and S/Cs were component vehicles too. They rollers were made by AC, and shipped to Shelby, minus drivetrain (and paint). Shelby added the drivetrains, and then sold them as complete cars. But that was the 60s, and the Cobra could be sold back then as a completed car in it's design. Today, to sell the same car, it has to be sold to the public as a component car.[/quote]



The original Cobras were "Cars" they were not "Component Cars" By the definition you are implying you would have to call many modern day cars "component cars"

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

Sal,

My point exactly, as what is another name for a "component car" , we all know it's a kit car, whether it is sold as a roller or not. So why is it that most new CSX owners (no, not you) cannot except that as a fact.



Bill S.

Bill, I think the ongoing debate stems from people's different definitions of the terms.

To some people, a kit car is anything that wasn't built in the 60s. To others, a kit car is just that... as car sold as a kit (unassembled).

To some people, a replica is anything that wasn't built in the 60s. To some CSX guys, a replica is any Cobra NOT sold by Shelby.

To some people, a real Cobra is one that was built in the 60s. To others, a real Cobra is any one sold by Shelby.

Unfortunately, until the entire Cobra world is on the same page as to what the definitions mean, this debate will never end.

[Power Surge]

Posted by Power Surge: "Let us not forget, that original comp and S/Cs were component vehicles too. They rollers were made by AC, and shipped to Shelby, minus drivetrain (and paint). Shelby added the drivetrains, and then sold them as complete cars. But that was the 60s, and the Cobra could be sold back then as a completed car in it's design. Today, to sell the same car, it has to be sold to the public as a component car.

Originally Posted by fostereast

The original Cobras were "Cars" they were not "Component Cars" By the definition you are implying you would have to call many modern day cars "component cars"

Try reading it again.

[fostereast]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

Try reading it again.

What am I missing?

[A-Snake]

Originally Posted by fostereast

What am I missing?

What Sal is saying is that cars of yesteryear can not be produced and sold as complete cars by a manufacturer today as they would not meet present day safety and emission standards.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by fostereast

What am I missing?

Without splitting hairs here

I believe was Sal was alluding to (wrongfully so in this case, sorry Sal) was that the cars were sent from AC to SAI sans drivetrain, thus making them a component vehicle. Where the logic goes astray is that AC was just a supplier of parts in roller form, and that SAI (at least here in the states) was the official "Manufacturer of Record". Just like GM orders parts from different suppliers, but does final assembly in it's own plants as the official "Manufacturer of Record". AC did not send along "AC" MSO's, (except the very, very early cars), but instead sent along assigned CSX numbers (or at least was supposed to send them) in which SAI could import and issue their own MSO's ....Not as confusing as it sounds, really.


Bill S.

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by A-Snake

What Sal is saying is that cars of yesteryear can not be produced and sold as complete cars by a manufacturer today as they would not meet present day safety and emission standards.

Exactly.