Real vs. Replica, Classic Motorsports Magazine Sept issue

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by Jamo

Jim

As usual...quiet class from an original owner.

Jamo,

I was thinking the same thing, Jim really is a class act who's example we should all follow whenever possible.


Sincerely,

Bill S.

[RACERAL]

Ditto Bill and Jamo!. And just to think.. I got to drive that car at 80 mph for a solid hour. The wife is still trying to find her contacts.

[Jim Maxwell]

Al, You never knew it, but you almost ended up on the cover. I was going to suggest to Tim Suddard that he use your Factory Five when the plan was to meet at VIR. Unfortunately, that never happened due to scheduling conflicts. Of course, I wouldn't have won that comparison either!

[RACERAL]

WOW... Had that have happened.. all would be well in the world...Yes.. you would have won that battle... I have a girly motor!
Hey, there is always another issue... Let's meet at Piedmont one nite.

[cobred]

Jim, is that the same Tom Cotter that wrote the Cobra in the barn and the hemi in the barn books?

[1985 CCX]

Jamo x 2
--------------
Jim

As usual...quiet class from an original owner.

Jeff

[Jim Maxwell]

Cobred, Yes, that Tom Cotter. Tom and I restored the "Cobra in the Barn" Cobra that inspired the book for him, CSX 2149. We did most of the work on the car ourselves and spent 3 years doing it. Tom has another book coming out, "Motorcycle in the Barn" (I don't which brand will be the title ride) and a book on Dean Jeffries, the famous car painter and customizer (the Monkee Mobile is probably his best known creation, although the Manta Ray gets my vote for his coolest car.)

[1ntCobra]

I stopped by a book store and found the July issue of the magazine for sale. And you say that you have the September issue.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

I stopped by a book store and found the July issue of the magazine for sale. And you say that you have the September issue.

Remember where you are, not quite on the edge of the civilized world


Bill S.

[Got the Bug]

1ntCobra - The Borders that I went to also had the July issue. If you wait, you can probably get a trial copy of the September issue (or wait for it to arrive at a bookstore).

[Maricopa]

Went to Borders and B. Dalton here in Phx and was only able to find the July edition although both stores had copies of the August 'Grassroots'.

[Got the Bug]

I called Classic Motorsports to subscribe and they said that my first issue would be the November issue. I asked them to send me a copy of the September issue and they said they would take care of it. Guessing that if you call for a trial now, you'll get the September issue.

[REAL 1]

Nah. I not going to slam anyone for suggesting the Continuation is a replica and should've been in the comparison of a real vs. replica. They're either just misinformed/ignorant as to the Continuation series or just being a jerk by again putting the car down most likely due to sour grapes. Anyway for the misinformed, to educate themselves they should visit www.saac.com which clearly explains SAAC's official postion and view of the Continuation series. Last I read this site is fully behind SAAC and supporting it.

Also as Ernie pointed out Shelby's endorsement doesn't make the Superformance a "Cobra". CobraEd do some more reading on what an endorsement is or study what Ernie said.

Very simply the comparison by Classic Motorsports between the Superformance and an original Cobra was an interesting comparison. One is a Cobra the other, very simply is not and merely a look a like that is not but merely referred to as one in a generic sense. The two cars differ in drastically in composition, specification and design.

A comparison between the Continuation series Cobra and a vintage Cobra would not yield much difference except if the engines were different or spring rates were different. They are identical in specification. The Continuation if set up with the same spring rates and engine output should be identical in performance to the vintage. Not much to read about there except one is older and one is newer.

BTW standing behind what your car is in the face of "put downs" doesn't make you a "snob" nor is being proud what it is. For those that believe it makes you a snob then I confess to being a snob and will continue to be. Just a brief response to a wise a$$ remark directed at me on another thread.

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

A celebrity endorsement of a product does'nt make that product any more special or different than what it was before the endorsement.

A celebrity who makes a product and sell's it under his name is substantially different. Paul Newmans salad dressing products are 'real', his endorsement of someone else's salad dressing simply says he is getting paid to say he 'likes it'.

Due to the popularity of the SPF brand name it is a logical choice for a comparison to an original Cobra, based on sales numbers. But I agree, might as well compare a Classic Roadster or an FFR! A more interesting comparison would be a modern Shelby CSX, built closer to original spec with similiar engines, etc.

FFR small block, 'race specs', might just clean up in such a test! Maybe it should compare to an FIA instead. Now THAT might be interesting.

I'll just stick with my CSX 4250 and all Shelby, including the motor. Let the other guys sort their own destiny. Time will tell....

[amy B]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

A celebrity endorsement of a product does'nt make that product any more special or different than what it was before the endorsement.

A celebrity who makes a product and sell's it under his name is substantially different. Paul Newmans salad dressing products are 'real', his endorsement of someone else's salad dressing simply says he is getting paid to say he 'likes it'.

Due to the popularity of the SPF brand name it is a logical choice for a comparison to an original Cobra, based on sales numbers. But I agree, might as well compare a Classic Roadster or an FFR! A more interesting comparison would be a modern Shelby CSX, built closer to original spec with similiar engines, etc.

FFR small block, 'race specs', might just clean up in such a test! Maybe it should compare to an FIA instead. Now THAT might be interesting.

Ernie, was this article based on the Superformance licensed vehicle that has no CSX number or the ones we actually finish in Las vegas that do get a CSX number? I couldn't find the article, but am interested in your "endorsement" quote. I assume the Modern CSX you refer to is the ones we build from scratch. Thanks

AMy

[Excaliber]

Amy, on 'Endorsement' I'm talking strictly about an Superformance, which I ASSUME is what was tested for the magazine. What Shelby builds in Vegas or wherever is a 'genuine' Shelby product, not just an endorsed product.

Now just what IS Shelby building in Vegas? I understood that to be a car from the PARENT company of SPF, "High Tech" built to Shelby's specs, finished in various degrees by him or his affiliated companies. In other words I don't THINK Shelby deals directly with Superformance itself other than from an endorsement/marketing approach. I would not consider a "High Tech" built Cobra to be the same as an "SPF" Cobra, but at some point the lines (as in assembly) could get blurred?

I have seen you make reference to SPF, in other posts at various points in time, in such a way as to 'link' Shelby closer to SPF than is actually the case. It's possible I'm mistaken, but it would be a good idea from YOUR office to clairify the difference between High Tech as a supplier and SPF as a supplier. It's subtle, but an important distinction. I for one would hate to think Shelby is simply building an SPF with a Shelby name. Pretty sure that is NOT the case!

There is a substantial difference in the 'specs' for an SPF vs a Shelby, for instance.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

I would not consider a "High Tech" built Cobra to be the same as an "SPF" Cobra, but at some point the lines (as in assembly) could get blurred?

I believe the two cars are structurally very different, different frames, suspensions, diff's, etc., and unless the new CSX4000's will share many features with the SPF brand cobra, I don;t think there will be much confusion from a structural standpoint.

I think the only cobra's that SAI completely builds now are the glass CSX7000's and csx8000's, i.e. building the frame, body. Obviously, all the aluminum cars go though vegas as well.

[Excaliber]

Good points Anthony. There are several suppliers for the Shelby product, and of course tons of 'endorsed products', two different worlds. Kirkham and others supply the alloy, all though perhaps it is basically ONLY Kirkham at this time. Subject to change, point is, it's NOT a Kirkham when it leaves Shelby. HST in Mexico still supplying glass as well as High Tech? Tough to keep up with the changes, what matters is the final product.

[Jamo]

You know what pisses me off?

Well, I'm gonna tell you what pisses me off. We have a nice thread about a magazine article comparing an original with a modern replica, with a nice sidenote about one of our members putting up his original for the comparo and then posting a damn nice post which should be a model for everyone here about how the real key to this hobby is the enjoyment of all the cars...

...and within a few pages it starts falling back into the same old BS about what is real, etc.

Warning: Stop pissing me off.

[Excaliber]

I see your point Jamo and it's well taken. I think a reasonable discussion as to the origins/history of both of the cars used in the test is warranted, but it's a slippery sloap all right. For my part, let me apologize for falling down and getting a little muddy.