H2O to power your Cobra True or False

[CobraDan]

http://waterpoweredcarplans.com/

My question is can we make this happen?

[Ron61]

Dan,

I can't answer your question with any figures right now but give me a month and I can. My cousin who bought my Cobra is building various models of these generators out of stainless steel and he is hooking them to everything from his daily driver to his farm equipment. So far he hasn't had enough time to really get any good data figures, but he did say the the two pick ups run smoother. He wants to drive them for a month at least and check his mileage and everything against what it was before to see just what if any gain he gets. And being a mechanic, he will also inspect the motors at various intervals. He is using them on everything from a stock 4 cylinder to a beefed up 350 in his Nova, and of course on the diesel motors in his farm equipment. That will take longer, but he said he should have some figures on the one pickup and car as they are his and his wife's daily drivers and get a lot of miles put on them.

Edit To Add: I am not promoting this as suggested by some of the following posts. I do know for a fact that this cousin has ran his farm equipment on a variety of different fuel mixture additives that he has made, Ie Ethenol, used cooking oil, and has had success with it. He never got double the mileage but said that it averaged about 1/4th more with no power loss or engine problems. He is just trying this. If it works good, if not all he has lost is a little time.


Ron

[CobraV8]

http://waterpoweredcarplans.com/

Complete bs

-Simon

[ffindling]

Total nonsense!! There have been numerous "water as fuel" schemes promoted lately but they're all about as worthless as whale doo-doo. All
this schemes are based on using electrolysis to generate "Brown's Gas"
which is simply the oxygen and hydrogen mixed together after water
moloecules are broken down by electrolysis. The Brown's Gas is then
simply used in an automotive engine like propane or natural gas are by
the use of a mixing valve to meter the gas into the induction stream of
the engine. Hydrogen is better viewed as an energy transfer medium than
an energy source of and in itself since it takes considerable energy to
extract it from water molecules. Hydrogen can certainly be used as a
motor vehicle fuel but apart from the energy necessary to generate it
from water, the other problem is storing sufficient quantities of it in a
motor vehicle to give the vehicle a reasonable range. Most systems
in use these days either use compressed gaseous hydrogen at very high pressure (300 bar or more) or cryogenic storage where the hydrogen is stored
in liquid form in insulated dewars.
The "water as fuel" scheme promoters would have you think that their
contraptions can electrolize sufficient quantities of water into hydrogen
"on the fly" to make either high pressure or cryogenic storage unnecessary,
but if this was the case why is it that only SPAMmers and backyard crackpots
are promoting it!

....Fred

[Woodz428]

I didn't even link on. I've seen these things in the past, they always pop up when fuel is pricey or scarce. Part of the "believeabilty" comes from the fact that H2O is part hydrogen. Hydrogen has an enormous potential for fuel...HOWEVER, with current laws of physics it takes more energy to breakdown the water to it's elements than the energy released. Remember that water is one of the most stable items on earth. The more stable something is the more energy it takes to break it down. That's also an important thing to consider with all the "hydrogen" solutions being put forth. It isn't a workable solution yet. They will take a billion $$ of your tax money to verify that it isn't though....wouldn't you...like to help...an energy like this...LOL

[CobraDan]

The link I gave has a video of a car from Japan using H2O running and they are looking into getting a major manufacturer to mass produce it. I to think this maybe a scam but I also think it is time to take another look.

http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/E:\Hydrogen Revolution\Tools\Hydrogen Generator.htm

[CobraDan]

http://www.rexresearch.com/evgray/1gray.htm

[427 S/O]

This has been discussed many times because the potential is enormous. Correct on energy required versus energy produced, no benefit. Although, I skipped through an article on using solar panels to generate power to make hydrogen!. Seems this would work well after initial investment?.

[wtm442]

If there was any truth to the wild claims of fantastic mileage improvements, don't you think at least one of the major auto manufacturers would be selling this "hybrid" right now?

With the price of gas over $4 a gallon here in the USA, the gas mileage scams are coming out of the woodwork.

I personally added 14 different gas saving devices to my daily driver, and now I have to siphon off at least 5 gallons of gas per day from the gas tank so it won't spill gas all over the street as I drive it.

[CobraDan]

Xogen Technologies Inc. is a young, aggressive company who is currently developing an innovative technology for the treatment of wastewater.
http://www.xogentechnologies.ca/

[vettestr]

I am using one of the home made generators to make browns gas. It has been about a year of tinkering when the mood struck me but mainly my fathers project and now have 2 vehicles using it. Main use is on a 2006 Saturn Vue,4 banger with full factory computer controls and got 26.4 MPG to start with. Best mileage average to date is 34.8 MPG. Second is a 35 foot RV with a TB injected Ford 460. It started with 8 to 9.5 MPG on its best days. The RV is very early on install but looks to be about 2 MPH improvement as a start but think much more is on the table.

Internet design package was 300 bucks, about another 200 bucks in .... (down revision stuff or parts and pieces that have been shelfed). The total cost of parts to build just the Saturn's working model alone is about 150 bucks, but thats $650 to date. It does work or to an improvement of 20 to maybe 30% in MPG. That is on a Saturn 4 door wagon that is not a gas hog to start with. The 1995 Ford 460 is the one with lots of room to improve on. Getting miles driven to test and tweak is turning out to be a slow road.

All the stuff above has been my Dads work product but I plan on stealing some of his experience to build a generator to simply improve the pump gas quality. I want to add Browns Gas to a high compression, high HP engine simply to improve effective octane. Improving octane is maybe not an accurate term. I mean take advantage of cooler fuel charge or more density with reduction of pinging and so on.

Total size is a quart size jar with some wires and electronics and some rubber tubing. The amperage draw to run the generator in early designs was pretty high at about 40 amps. Now have amp draw down to about 20 amps at full browns gas production. It consumes distilled water with baking soda at a rate of about 9 spoons of mixture per 20 gallons of gas.

If Uncle Sam figures out how to tax water you will see this taken to a new level, not backyard hackers like my dad and others. Adding browns gas to pump gas is easy and does not have all the down side of trying to run high levels, high pressure or full hydrogen systems. At high levels the byproduct kills engines without a lot of modification but low levels the product/ byproduct is what works, hydrogen - 02 - condensate or water.

[Bob In Ct]

Do not confuse the hydrogen in water with the hydrogen needed to power anything. Water is the by-product of "burning" hydrogen. Just as carbon dioxide and water are the by-products of burning gasoline. 2H2 + O2 ---> 2H20 + heat. This is just basic chemistry. The only way to extract the hydrogen in water is to have access to a lot of electrical energy. Don't be scammed.

And yes I am a Chemist - BS 1969.

Bob

[427 S/O]

So Bob, If someone had a solar panel producing 110V, and it was connected to a hydrogen generator, how much Hydrogen would it generate assuming it received 5-6 hours of sunlight and, an effective storage system was in place to receive and store the hydrogen. I understand there are more details involved but, let's just assume all hardware is in place and working.

[strictlypersonl]

Solar insolation (the Sun's energy reaching the Earth's surface) is about 0.4 KW per square meter during the daytime (let's say 10 hours - optimistic...). Solar panels are about 10% efficient, so you would be getting .04 KW/sqM/hour=0.4 KW per day per square meter.

Your car needs 5-100 KW for driving. So... for an hour's driving you would need a minimum of about 50 square meters of PVs to generate 20 KWH. With a small car and brake regeneration, you might be able to get away with 10 KWH in the city.

Somebody should check my math. I'm doing this on the run...

[427 S/O]

Here ya go....

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/04...nd-filling-st/

Question answered!, I gotta get the details on this.

[speed220mph]

It all boils down to "drill now, drill here and pay less." That's not political, it's common sense.

Ford's hydrogen effort at Bonneville was interesting. The Fusion had barely enough room for the driver. The hydrogen fueling station was about as far from humanity as they could get it. Imagine the explosion if it had blown up! How do you spell Hindeburg?

[wtm442]

Originally Posted by 427 S/O

Here ya go....

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/04...nd-filling-st/

Question answered!, I gotta get the details on this.

The only detail you need to know is that it probably costs at least twice what you paid for your Cobra. Therefore, you will probably have to live to 175 years old to get a positive ROI.

I saw that on the TV news about 3 weeks ago. Hydrogen powered cars is still in its infancy. So are a lot of other technologies. We will just have to wait and see what comes down the pike.

[427 S/O]

Hey!, I want drilling....and now!. They can drill in my back yard. IMO hydrogen is the best alternative.

[CobraDan]

1 mL of water will make 1866 mL of Brown's Gas. (eagle-research.com)

1 gallon is 3.84 liters

1 fluid ounce is 30 mL (CC)

8 ounces of water would have 447,840 mL of Brown's Gas or 116.625 gallons of gas. 16 times 8 ounces equals 1 gallon. So 116.625 X 16 is equal to 1866 gallons of gasious fuel in 1 gallon of water.

[CobraDan]

http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/E:\Hydrogen Revolution\Tools\Hydrogen.htm