Toe & Heel Adjustment

FatBoy · #1 (**permalink**) 08-08-2008, 10:30 AM

I'm looking for some advice on how to adjust my pedals for ideal toe & heel use. I currently have my brake and throttle set so that they are both level in the idle position, which works fine for normal driving, but when I toe & heel, I have to use the side of my foot to "blip" the throttle, which is nowhere near my heel.
Is this normal? I should pint out that I have a Kirkham with the billet pedals.
If I adjust the throttle to be lower, I'll run out of pedal travel and if I adjust the brake to be higher, my knee will hit the steering wheel.
What to do?

Paul

fsiewert · #2 (**permalink**) 08-08-2008, 11:22 AM

I'm anxiously awating a reply too...would like to know how the pedels should be set up.for heel-toe!
Fred

xracerbob · #3 (**permalink**) 08-08-2008, 11:43 AM

Heel and toe is the term that refers to blipping the throttle while in neutral and the clutch is out. What part of the foot you actually use depends on where the pedals happen to be located. Rolling your foot over a little to the right to blip the throttle is perfectly acceptable and in my opinion preferred since it is not so awkward. Cobra pedals are great for this.

You want to set the brake/throttle relationship so that when you are on the brakes and they are actually slowing the car down, the gas pedal is about even, so its easy to get the blip done.

I taught this stuff for 8 years at Skip Barber.

CSX3018 · #4 (**permalink**) 08-08-2008, 01:46 PM

Paul
I have a kirkham also . My excelator petal has an adjustable stop at the
back of the petal. By adjusting this and carburator throttle linckage you
should get the deired effect.

R.H.M.

4pipes · #5 (**permalink**) 08-08-2008, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xracerbob

Heel and toe is the term that refers to blipping the throttle while in neutral and the clutch is out. What part of the foot you actually use depends on where the pedals happen to be located. Rolling your foot over a little to the right to blip the throttle is perfectly acceptable and in my opinion preferred since it is not so awkward. Cobra pedals are great for this.

You want to set the brake/throttle relationship so that when you are on the brakes and they are actually slowing the car down, the gas pedal is about even, so its easy to get the blip done.

I taught this stuff for 8 years at Skip Barber.

I totally agree.

LMH · #6 (**permalink**) 08-08-2008, 10:53 PM

For me, there was actually never any "heal" involved when I raced cars. I would brake with the left side of my foot and roll my foot to the right to pop the gas with the right side of my foot. You want the brake to be depressed (when applied) to about even with the gas pedal. Everybody has their own little tricks.
Worked best that way for me.
It takes some practice.
Larry

Jerry Clayton · #7 (**permalink**) 08-09-2008, 08:03 AM

And with todays transmissions and brake systems there isn't any need for it unless you just want to rap the pipes as you slow down at a stop lite to annoy some snob in a_____________( fill in the blank)

4pipes · #8 (**permalink**) 08-09-2008, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Clayton

And with todays transmissions and brake systems there isn't any need for it unless you just want to rap the pipes as you slow down at a stop lite to annoy some snob in a_____________( fill in the blank)

You may not have to double clutch anymore, but you still have to match RPM's when downshifting and braking into a corner.

Jerry Clayton · #9 (**permalink**) 08-09-2008, 09:42 AM

If you are using engine for braking you are upsetting you braking balance for maz braking ability---also letting the enginre revs go up underbraking creates a possible situation for over revving and/or oil starvation in a wet sump system---

If you are racing use brakes and loud pedal , one at a time, never together, it may take practice for you and you may have to over come peer pressure from other bench racers but you will be faster when you get it right

bret a ewing · #10 (**permalink**) 08-11-2008, 02:10 PM

I can see both sides of the discussion. The brakes should be used to slow down the car, not the clutch/driveline, save the driveline whenever possible. Where heel/toe can help is when your turn-in on a corner is complete (even using some trail-brake) you normally have a little time to match the revs to the next gear. Makes for a smoother transition throughout the turn, also feels pretty good when you get it Jussssst right. Anyway, JMHO. As someone said earlier, takes practice and possibly some mechanical adjustments.
I have a CSX4k - I removed the pedals from the pedal-box, here is my setup:
From left to right -- 3" distance from left foot-wall to clutch. 4 3/4" between clutch and brake. 4 1/2" from brake to right foot-wall. Throttle pedal is 1 1/8" from right foot-wall.
I gave me more room to work and now I don't have to lift my foot to transition from brake to gas, just place my heel and work the brake/gas controlls in a parallel path, also by not lifting less interference leg to steering wheel. A firm stab of the right side of the brake pad brings me to perfect blip control. Have fun with it!

Jamo · #11 (**permalink**) 08-11-2008, 02:23 PM

Every car is different...every foot is different. You should be able to heel/toe in any car. I learned on a 49 Plymouth flatbed truck. I do it all the time driving the Vette and the Cobra...practice makes it easier.

It's just rolling your foot over in most instances...not so much for double-clutching anymore as it is for matching revs, as others have noted.

Get a copy of Grand Prix and watch the footwork during the Monaco race at the beginning...

Madmiles442 · #12 (**permalink**) 08-11-2008, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatBoy

.... but when I toe & heel, I have to use the side of my foot to "blip" the throttle, which is nowhere near my heel.
Is this normal?
Paul

Perfectly normal. It's more braking with the ball of your foot under your big toe, and rolling your ankle towards the gas pedal and popping it with the upper side of your foot above your big toe. That's the area where Piloti reinforces their driving shoes for exactly that reason.
On this link, check out the red area on the side of this shoe. That's your strike zone for the loud pedal.
http://www.piloti.com/products/produ...rod_sku=PRO5-2

Just a blip will do it. Just try and closer match the rpm in the lower gear you're going to to the slowing speed of the car.
Downshifting quickly in these light rear-end cars and using the motor to pull you down is a great way to have it swap ends. Oh, and it happens so quick....

bret a ewing · #13 (**permalink**) 08-12-2008, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamo

Every car is different...every foot is different. You should be able to heel/toe in any car. I learned on a 49 Plymouth flatbed truck. I do it all the time driving the Vette and the Cobra...practice makes it easier.

It's just rolling your foot over in most instances...not so much for double-clutching anymore as it is for matching revs, as others have noted.

Get a copy of Grand Prix and watch the footwork during the Monaco race at the beginning...

Yep what the big guy said, hell the whole movie is great, "Lemans" another classic.

For those who would like very good technical reference check out:

http://www.amazon.com/Going-Faster-M.../dp/0837602262

I find this a great all around racing/driving/setup book.

Bret.